Prime Minister
Ladies and Gentlemen, it might perhaps help if I say a few words at the beginning.
I understand that this is the first official visit of a British Prime Minister ever. I am amazed that it has taken so long, but rather pleased that it has fallen to me and at such a time.
This morning, we arrived mid-morning and met President Koller, who was later joined by several of his Federal Council colleagues—the Foreign Secretary, the Defence Secretary, the Transport Secretary and the Economic Secretary—and we got down to discussions in, as you would expect, a very good atmosphere because there are in fact no difficulties between Switzerland and the United Kingdom. We are both ancient democracies, ancient parliaments, and hold very similar views on the importance of democracy and having a free and very open society and not protectionism for trade in any way. [end p1]
My hosts were particularly interested in the European Economic Community. As you know, they are members of EFTA and of the negotiations between EFTA and the European Community at the present time.
We notice that Switzerland has chosen to play a more prominent role in international affairs at the moment. That we observe from two things: first, that she is seeking to join the IMF and we certainly would be anxious to do all we can to assist that process; and of course that she has made it quite clear that although not a member of the United Nations, she staunchly upholds the sanctions resolution against Iraq.
She is now interested in the prospects for the economic European Economic Community and of the EFTA negotiations. I gave my views, which are very similar to those of Switzerland, that the European Community should be very much an open community and one which consists of the present twelve sovereign nations and hopefully more before very long, twelve sovereign nations willingly cooperating with one another and accountable through the Ministers on the Council of Ministers to their own particular Parliaments.
They told me about the negotiations that are going on between EFTA and the European Community and asked my views about the possibility of joining the Community fully, should the people of Switzerland choose to do so.
I think it is true to say that the neutrality is in no way a bar because the Republic of Ireland is of course a neutral country and a full member of the Community. I gave my views on such things as the Social Charter and some of the directives that we are now going through, and my views that I hope very much that the Community would not become very strongly bureaucratic in the centre, but far [end p2] from that would have the minimum rules in order to get a Single Market.
So we had quite a long discussion about that because obviously the people of Switzerland will have a very interesting choice to make and they will want to have a kind of balance sheet of the advantages and possibly the drawbacks to Switzerland before they make that particular decision.
After lunch, we concentrated on the Gulf, how the present situation came about, the actions which the United Nations has taken, and how they have been backed up by many other countries in the world who have gone with forces to Saudi Arabia and the other Gulf countries to deter any further aggression and to see that the two fundamental things of the resolutions shall come about: namely that Iraq shall withdraw from Kuwait; and that the legitimate government of Kuwait must be restored and there must in fact be no compromise and no negotiation about those two absolutely vital things.
I pointed out that we were hoping to get sanctions against air traffic hopefully on Friday when we go from the Five Permanent Members of the Council to the larger group on the Security Council.
We also discussed the point about the IMF and I made it quite clear that we would do everything that we could to help.
It is interesting to come here, having been to Czechoslovakia and Hungary, interesting that all three countries, very very different in background, in history, in culture, are all interested in seeing the same kind of European Community, one that consists of the membership of sovereign nations willingly cooperating with one another but upholding their sovereignty and their own particular identity. [end p3]
On the commercial side, I should perhaps say that we are very very important partners. Switzerland is the second biggest investor in Britain other than investment in oil, the second biggest investor in Britain which is an enormous investment which we are very pleased to have. And we sell in Switzerland twice as much per head as we do in Germany or Japan. So there is a very very good commercial relationship both ways in investment and two-way trade and very close identity of view on all the democratic ideals which we share.
We shall have time to discuss other things this evening but that is as far as we have got today. And they were very fruitful, interesting and very very friendly talks, it was a pleasure to be involved in them. [end p4]
Question
Prime Minister, at a time when the European Community and indeed the United Nations are attempting to coordinate policy, Britain, albeit on a national basis, has participated in European efforts to coordinate foreign policy, is it not illogical to talk about a neutral country coming into the Community, taking the economic advantages without taking the burden-sharing role?
Prime Minister
But as I indicated in my opening remarks, the Republic of Ireland is neutral, she is a full member of the European Community, so neutrality is not in any way a bar. And in EFTA of course, Sweden also is a neutral country. The defence role, as you know, is taken by NATO, not by the European Community, the European Community is not a defence organisation.
Question (Financial Times)
Did President Koller give a clear indication that he would actually be seeking membership of the Community or that he would go so far as to carry out a referendum in Switzerland, and if so, was it your impression that the government in general would want to pursue that direction and would the British government support Switzerland in such an application?
Prime Minister
No, at the moment, as you know, Switzerland is the Chairman of the EFTA members who are negotiating with the European Community [end p5] and they are particularly interested in the Single Market because of course they would have to accept not only all of the directives which we have adopted, but those which would be adopted right up to the beginning of the Single Market, called as you know the Acquis Communautaire, and they have to accept all of those things and therefore they will have to make a kind of balance sheet of what they would be accepting and what effect it would have upon their own democratic systems, and of course they have their own way of deciding things and I am sure it would be put in their customary way to the people as such an important issue. So it is for them to choose.
Of course there is the possibility being discussed that they might become full members of the Community. Some people are very interested in that and they want to know precisely what that would involve before they make up their minds whether to seek application.
So it is for them to choose and for us to help them to choose by presenting as many of the facts and what it is like to be a member of the Community as possible. They have a quite unique system and it might affect the cantons very differently, so that is for them to sort out and for them to decide whether to go ahead with an application.
We would welcome an increasing role by a vital country like Switzerland in international affairs, whether they choose to take it is a matter for them and their people.
Question
You have been told that there are difficulties in these negotiations between EFTA and the EC concerning the Single Market and now the most important point is that EFTA wants to participate [end p6] in decision-making, of course not the whole thing, but they want to take part in that. It would be interesting to hear your point of view since you stress the amount of sovereignty of the states, so this might help the community of sovereign states if at some point they could participate in decision-making?
Prime Minister
I think it is difficult to participate in decision-making on the directives without being a full member. They could of course feed in their views through their own negotiations so that we could take them into account. But you know when it comes to completing the directives for the Single Market, some of those directives have to be approved by a unanimous vote, others require only a majority vote, and so it would therefore be difficult formally to participate but only by the indirect route of letting us have their views. And of course I think there would be no bar to Switzerland letting some of us have their views or they can do it formally, perhaps through members of the Commission. But I do not think you can have the role of being a member without being a member and I think they would understand that.
Question (Chris Moncrieff, Press Association)
Did you discuss with President Koller Switzerland's contribution to the United Nations effort to resolve the Gulf crisis?
Prime Minister
Switzerland has made an announcement that she is making a contribution and I did point out that Mr Brady had been to see us [end p7] and we shall play our part, and Switzerland is making some contribution I think with regard to the sanctions matter where they are biting particularly heavily on some other countries, and I am sure she is prominent in helping the refugee problem as well.
Question
Will your talks with the Swiss be concerned with the question of narcotics and the seizure of assets by people in Great Britain and in Switzerland who have been convicted of narcotic crimes?
Prime Minister
We are very anxious to get maximum cooperation about anything to do with terrorism, any criminal activities of a serious nature, including in particular narcotics and tracing the monies which are gained from peddling in drugs. I have not in fact raised that with them this morning, I will hope to do so with them later.
Question (Trevor Kavanagh, Sun)
Did you discuss the position of possible Iraqi agents or subversives who may be operating from Switzerland?
Prime Minister
No.
Question (Paul Reynolds, BBC Radio)
Herr Pöhl, the Bundesbank President, yesterday suggested that Britain is some way from controlling inflation and therefore it might not be such a good idea to join the ERM soon. Can you help us at all in saying when and how Britain's membership will take [end p8] place, whether the Madrid conditions have been met or are being met or indeed will be changed?
Prime Minister
No, the Madrid conditions will not be changed, the Madrid conditions, as you know, do include the condition of getting our inflation nearer to the European average. So in fact I do not think it is really any change upon the Madrid conditions, it is just that Karl Otto Pöhl said it that is the news. I do not think you will find it is any change from the Madrid conditions.
Question (Swiss Radio International)
Could you remind us why a few weeks ago you were unhappy about the International Committee of the Red Cross ICRC?
Prime Minister
Because it seemed to be acting very slowly and we have got used to acting and making decisions very quickly. In fact they have not been able to get into Iraq which I think is a tragedy and I think it reflects very badly on Iraq and of course we understand that they are not prepared to receive either Sadruddin Aga Khan from the United Nations. I think we should make it very clear that that is a thorough reflection upon Iraq in both cases.
Question (Today)
You were referring to money earlier on drug trafficking, you also referred to terrorism, have you got any assurances that the Swiss will do more to track down for example IRA or other terrorist money in Switzerland? [end p9]
Prime Minister
I indicated that we had not in fact discussed this this morning, I shall hope to raise it later today. This morning we were discussing mainly the EFTA/EC, and of course one did go on to the wider question, as I know some people, if not the government, are interested in it, but mainly the EFTA/EC and then the Gulf and then the IMF and then just pointing out that the trading relations and the general background is very good.
Question (Gordon Martin, New York Times)
Back to the Gulf again, are you satisfied that several weeks after the occupation of Kuwait by Iraqi troops, that the momentum of international action to oust them is in fact being kept up?
Prime Minister
Yes.
Question
Do you feel that there is a risk that Western action is perhaps eroding?
Prime Minister
Hardly, in the last few days we have announced we are sending an armoured division, France has announced that she is sending a good many extra troops, and others are already arriving from Arab countries, so the answer was yes—Y E S. [end p10]
Question
I have a question regarding European Economic Space. Do you have a wish that EC directives in future get automatically norms for the European economic space too?
Prime Minister
I think that the directives should apply to the European Economic Space, or Area as we call it. I think that those directives are necessary for the Single Market and therefore if you want to enjoy the Single Market then I am afraid the directives possibly have to apply, otherwise it would just become a kind of customs union which would be different. But as I understand it, EFTA is now negotiating a new relationship with the EC in view of the Single Market in 1992, in which case the directives would apply. If it were merely a customs union I would not expect them all to apply.
Question
But the decisions which are made in the future, in 1994-1995, should become automatically then also norms for the European economic space?
Prime Minister
EFTA is in process of negotiating now with the EC precisely what the new relationship would be and what the transition period would be, because there would obviously have to be a transition period because you could not possibly adopt all of those things necessarily into your own law in the way which Switzerland works. That negotiation is taking place, it is I think going a little bit [end p11] more slowly than some members of EFTA would wish, but any of those problems that they have, must be put in those negotiations. So in Switzerland's case, when they have got all the results, then they can put it to their people for their decision.
Question
You criticised other European countries in your speech in Helsinki recently for not doing enough for the Gulf, and yet here you are saying you see eye to eye with the Swiss government which seems to limit itself to financial contributions, a figure for which we have not even been given. Why are you being soft on the Swiss?
Prime Minister
That is a real mischievous question is it not? That is a real mischief-making question. You know full well that Switzerland is neutral and has a very special position being neutral, and therefore I would not expect Switzerland to take up the position which most of the rest of us have adopted. Ireland has not I think either. Switzerland has announced some help, I think of the order of 10 million Swiss francs for refugees as a result of what has happened.
Question
Countries like Japan have contributed billions of dollars, do you really think it is fair to compare a country like Switzerland with such a long history, not tied to another country such as Ireland was to Britain and which after all is much bigger and much richer, whereas Ireland is poor, is it not a bit of mischievous comparison? [end p12]
Prime Minister
Oh dear, we really have got an alliance of mischief-makers among the television people, have we not? I would not compare Switzerland to Japan. Switzerland has a unique position as a neutral country, as the home of many many international organisations. She is giving to help the refugees to be cleared from Jordan and other countries and making her contribution that way she also makes it through the use of international organisations. [end p13]
Question (Associated Press)
I just wondered, on the Gulf contributions again, whether you discussed it at all because you gave us the impression when you began your news conference that you thought the Swiss had made a contribution to the cost of sanctions as well. It seems, from what the Swiss official says, that they have restricted themselves to giving 10 million Swiss Francs to refugees, so I wondered if you had discussed it all and if I am right.
Prime Minister
I believe Mr. Brady has been to see Switzerland as well—I certainly got that impression.
Sir Christopher LongBritish Ambassador to Switzerland
Could I add that I am not a Swiss official and it is not for me to speak for Switzerland. I am the British Ambassador in Berne. I was merely mentioning the fact, which I know to be the truth, that the Swiss have given 10 million Swiss Francs to refugees. They [end p14] have also made available, as I understand it, a Boeing 707 aircraft for a month to take refugees on shuttle services between Jordan and South Asia but they may have done other things and it is really not for me to say what they have done. You had better ask the Swiss!
Question
Do you think that the negotiation about European Economic Space has sense? Wouldn't it be better for Europe if the countries of EFTA became full members of the Community?
Prime Minister
I think it is for each of them to make that decision. To become a full member of the Community is a much bigger operation even than EFTA obviously. It means joining the Common Agricultural Policy, it means contributing to the Structural Funds, it means joining the Political Cooperation. It is a much bigger thing altogether than the EFTA relationship—even the new EFTA relationship which is being negotiated with the Community—and that is a decision for each of them to make or to apply for. If they wished to join the Community, they would first have to apply, details would have to be negotiated. That is quite a lengthy operation and then, when those details had been negotiated and the transition period, it obviously would be a matter for the person who applied to say whether those would be suitable and whether they would wish to join. [end p15]
Question
Considering the attitude of Iraq, which is quite uncompromising apparently, do you foresee any way out of a war and if there is a war, when do you think it could break out?
Prime Minister
Sanctions are being tightened. I think that the maritime sanctions are working very well. I think something has been getting through by air. Obviously you cannot get through the amount by air that you could by sea but you can get through some significant spare parts and things which are critical to the Iraqi economy by air, which is why we are going to tighten air sanctions, but the strategy is to have absolutely tight sanctions to bring pressure on Saddam Hussein to withdraw from Kuwait. That was and remains the strategy together with the defence of the other Gulf countries and deterrence so that there should be no further invasion of their territory.
Question (Financial Times)
Prime Minister, in his Opening Address, I think it was at lunch today, Dr. Koller indicated that he saw further Swiss integration into the whole political process in Western Europe as not merely a possibility but a probability. Did he indicate specifically how he saw the new role for Switzerland? Could you fill us in a little on that? [end p16]
Prime Minister
No, I would not say that it was a probability because I think everyone to whom I speak is very much aware that in Switzerland the decisions are put by referendum to the people and it is for them to draw up a precise balance sheet of what the advantages and disadvantages would be and if, after the EFTA negotiation if they are satisfactorily completed, any member wishes—I think at the end of 1992 when we have completed to Single Market—to go ahead and apply further, there will be quite a long negotiation and I do not think it would be possible to say whether there would be a probability or a possibility and it could not be done in Switzerland without reference to the people.
I do think, from what has already happened, that Switzerland is taking a more prominent role in world affairs, wishing to join the IMF—and that is being negotiated now over there—very firm and very quick in accepting the sanctions resolution of the United Nations and, of course, in the Chair of negotiations between EFTA and the EEC.
Question
Prime Minister, do you raise any hope for the expatriates who are living in Switzerland who might or might not be able to vote at the next coming election? [end p17]
Prime Minister
Provided they have not been out here too long, they in fact, if they register, could have a vote at the next election. We have extended the period during which they can be here and still have the possibility of a vote.
Question
Prime Minister, President Waldheim of Austria has come in for considerable criticism for his visit to Baghdad to bring out Austrian hostages. Do you think that this may have affected Austria's chances of joining the European Community in the short term and did you send him a message of greeting when you passed over Austrian air space this morning?
Prime Minister
“No” to both parts of the question.