PRIME MINISTER
Engagements
Q1. Mr. Viggers
To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 3 April.
The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)
This morning I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House, I shall be having further meetings later today. This evening I shall attend a state banquet in honour of the President of India.
Mr. Viggers
I thank the Prime Minister for that reply. In the light of recent shocking acts of violence, does my right hon. Friend agree it is the duty of all responsible political leaders not only to express words but to take all actions open to them to influence others to obey the law in every respect?
The Prime Minister
Yes, I agree with my hon. Friend. No one is above the law. We must all obey it. That is what [column 1028]the rule of law is. All responsible leaders should encourage every other person to obey the law and take the requisite action to do so.
Mr. Kinnock
Is it not obvious to anyone who has observed the Prime Minister in recent days that she was rightly horrified by the injuries done to the public, the police and property last Saturday? Is it not equally clear, however, that she can barely conceal her delight at the diversion and uproar provided—[Interruption.] When it comes to extremists, the difference is that I fight them whereas the Prime Minister needs them.
The Prime Minister
The right hon. Gentleman is talking nonsense on both counts. Yes, I was deeply concerned at the scenes. I am deeply concerned that it is not the first time that the police have been injured in upholding the rights of ordinary citizens. During the coal dispute, 1,392 police were injured and at Wapping, 572 police were injured. Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman would remember, before he makes such accusations, the scenes outside Grunwick, at the Stockport Messenger, at Warwick, at Wapping and the scenes we saw last week and which we all condemn.
Mr. Kinnock
The Prime Minister exposes herself even more. By dredging through all those past acts, she demonstrates exactly the truth of what I said earlier. Those who affect to despise her policies most give the greatest comfort to the right hon. Lady, but she derides that comfort and encourages further uproar.
The Prime Minister
Nonsense—the right hon. Gentleman is trying far too hard and not succeeding. Does he condemn the 28 or 30 Members on his own side who seek to break the law? What does he say to people who throughout the years in the Labour party have not always said that it was necessary to obey the law? The hon. member for Kingston upon Hull, East (Mr. Prescott), speaking about rate capping, said:
“In the local authority situation do you obey the law or not obey the law? We don't have any firm principles in the party” ——
The Labour party—
“of how we might deal with the problem” .
Mr. Soames
Would my right hon. Friend find time today to send a message to Mr. Mugabe to congratulate him on his re-election and on the considerable progress made in Zimbabwe in the past 10 years? Will she also express to Mr. Mugabe the great concern of a number of people in this country at the prospect of Zimbabwe sliding into a one-party state? Will she urge him to readopt the principles of the Lancaster house agreement which have so honourably served Zimbabwe in the past 10 years?
The Prime Minister
Yes, of course we congratulate President Mugabe. As my hon. Friend points out, the principles on which the election were fought were very different from the principles in the Lancaster house constitutional agreement, but Mr. Mugabe upheld that during the appointed time for the entrenched clauses. I agree with my hon. Friend. It is very different when one has a one-party state. Obviously, those are the things that he is thinking of. May I also point out we help considerably in Zimbabwe as our armed forces train the Zimbabwe armed forces and the Mozambique armed forces to fight terrorism in that country.
[column 1029]Q2. Mr. Patchett
To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 3 April.
The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Patchett
We hope that the right hon. Lady is better briefed today than she was last Thursday. Can she now explain to the House why 42,000 student nurses on low incomes should be subject to the full rate of poll tax?
The Prime Minister
The hon. Gentleman refers to 42,000 student nurses who are training and who receive a salary. Other student nurses who go on to Project 2000—which will very shortly be most student nurses—will receive a considerable bursary. Once they receive that bursary they will be treated as students and they will receive a rebate of 80 per cent. of the community charge. When nurses receive a salary during the course of their training they will be treated in exactly the same way as other young people who receive a salary in the course of their training. The hon. Gentleman might not like it, but that is the answer.
Q3. Mr. Speller
To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 3 April.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Speller
Does my right hon. Friend agree that because of the unexpected and unplanned size of the community charge throughout the country the most logical way to assist everyone of every type and class might be to transfer one large chunk of Government-sponsored money such as education or teachers' salaries from the community charge to the income tax budget?
The Prime Minister
If we were to do that we might put a great deal of extra expenditure on to the taxpayer. Teachers' salaries might put 5p extra on to income tax without any guarantee of a reduction in the community charge because some local authorities would increase their expenditure and we would finish up with much higher income tax and the same community charge. First we must consider how to restrict extravagant spending by local authorities.
Mr. Ashdown
Does the Prime Minister realise that on the crucial question of Britain's full membership of the European monetary system she now risks the same deadly uncertainty over Government policy which cost her a Chancellor of the Exchequer and Britain a plummeting pound and high inflation only a few months ago? Does she disagree with the Governor of the Bank of England and the Chancellor of the Exchequer, both of whom have recently said that the only obstacle that prevents Britain joining the exchange rate mechanism will be removed once high inflation is curbed?
The Prime Minister
My right hon. Friend John Majorthe Chancellor of the Exchequer has made it clear that we stand by the Madrid conditions—which the hon. Gentleman can read as they have been given in Parliament many times—that first, there is no hindrance to the free movement of capital around the Community—some hindrances still remain; Italy has not removed all controls—also that we should have clear freedom of movement for financial services and, further, that we carry out stage one of the Delors report and that we get inflation down to the [column 1030]middle of the European Community. When those conditions are fulfilled we shall join. Considerable progress has been made as other members of the Community are now following our example by getting rid of many of the controls on the movement of capital—a process which we completed years ago.
Q4. Mr. Butterfill
To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 3 April.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Butterfill
Will my right hon. Friend join me in condemning the statement by Mr. Andy Murphy on BBC television that as leader of the punk anarchist group Class War he thought that those who attacked the police on Saturday were justified in so doing and that they are working class heroes? Does my right hon. Friend share my concern that Mr. Murphy is apparently employed by the London borough of Hackney as a finance officer? Does she not think that he should be dismissed?
The Prime Minister
All decent people find any such remarks utterly repugnant and support the police in their arduous task in the front line. Anyone who makes such a remark should have nothing to do with the democratic process because they must be flatly against it.
Q6. Mr. Skinner
To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 3 April.
The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Skinner
Is the Prime Minister aware that in 1979 the cost to the taxpayer of running Downing street was £1¼ million and that 10 years later that cost has soared by more than 400 per cent.—a bigger percentage increase in expenditure than any local authority in Britain—and that that does not even include the cost of the gates? Is not the fortress of Madam Ceausescu therefore a suitable case for poll tax capping?
The Prime Minister
I thought that the hon. Gentleman was better at mathematics. If he will make his comparisons on the same basis, he will find that our running costs compare very favourably both with central Government and with local authorities. I am sorry that the hon. Gentleman would have preferred Downing street, which is an historic house, to be attacked and greatly damaged. Its repair would have cost much more than the gates.
Mr. Atkinson
With regard to the situation in Lithuania, and now Estonia, does my right hon. Friend agree that the secret protocol of 1939 makes the Baltic states a very special case and that it would be both immoral and illegal to ignore their continued appeals for self-determination and independence? Will not the CSCE summit later this year be the appropriate forum in which to resolve that matter?
The Prime Minister
I have indicated before in the House that this country never recognised the legality of the annexation of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia into the Soviet Union. Thus, we have never had any representation in those states and we do not recognise the legality of their annexation now. The Helsinki accord recognised the boundaries in fact but not in law. Two countries have made clear their views about self-determination. [column 1031]Nevertheless, it will be very wise to urge politicians in both Lithuania and Estonia, as well as in Moscow, to resolve their differences by dialogue and discussion. I am sure that that is in the interests of the countries concerned and ourselves.
Q6. Mr. Home Robertson
To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 3 April.
The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Home Robertson
Is the Prime Minister aware that one year's experience of the poll tax in Scotland makes it abundantly clear that no amount of time can heal the running sore of a tax which robs the poor to pay the rich? Does the right hon. Lady recall telling me in a parliamentary answer this time last year that I should [column 1032]donate my unwanted and ill-gotten poll tax gains to charity? What does the right hon. Lady intend to do with the £1,500 that she will gain at the expense of the long-suffering people of London?
The Prime Minister
I now pay community charge in two places. The hon. Gentleman may take it from me that I shall continue to be generous with the money that I have—[Interruption.]
Mr. Speaker
Order. It is unfair to others in the House.
The Prime Minister
Like the hon. Member for East Lothian (Mr. Home Robertson), I shall continue to be generous to the charities which I believe in and support with the moneys that I have, whether or not they are allowed for tax.