Count Paolo Filo della Torre, La Repubblica
President Cossiga is a great admirer of both yourself and your country and he therefore reflects the feelings of the Italian nation. Do you think “the love affair” between the United Kingdom and Italy can be further enhanced?
MT
President Cossiga has many admirers in Britain and I am foremost among them. We know him as a man of great culture and a friend of our country. I first met him early on in my time as Prime Minister, when he was Italy's Prime Minister, and we have remained in regular contact ever since. It is always a delight to talk to him and to learn from his wisdom about European affairs. A State Visit is a really rather exceptional event in our country and President Cossiga will be a most honoured guest.
You are quite right: there is a unique relationship between Britain and Italy which goes back over many centuries. Generations of Englishmen and Englishwomen have travelled to Italy to see your great buildings and art treasures and to immerse themselves in Italy's culture. There is tremendous admiration for Italian ingenuity, flare and design, as well as for the success of Italian industry. I suppose that, in a sense, we are both Europeans with a maritime rather than a continental tradition and therefore see it from a particular perspective.
Will this unique relationship become stronger still? I don't know: I can only say that I hope so. [end p1]
Count Paolo Filo della Torre, La Repubblica
Prime Minister, you are the leader of one of the greatest nations in the world and you also have great experience and great charisma. How would you propose to forge the destinies of the world in the next decade?
MT
It is a bold question and it deserves a bold answer. I want to see us create a world in which true democracy and the rule of law are extended far and wide. I want to see the new democracies of Eastern Europe brought into closer association with our institutions in Western Europe, with the policies of economic freedom extended to them as well. I want to see us progress to a much higher level of international cooperation, more intensive than anything we have achieved so far, to deal with drugs, terrorism and the global environment. I want to see the United Nations play the role in world affairs which its founders intended: not as a world government - that was never realistic - but as a place where truth is told and objective standards prevail. That is not exactly a modest agenda. But I think it is important not to be parochial in our concerns and focus only on what happens on our doorstep. [end p2]
Count Paolo Filo della Torre, La Repubblica
Do you think that the crisis in the Middle East may be resolved peacefully and do you find that the Western response to Saddam Hussein's aggression has been adequate? Do you think that the great nations of the world will be able to negotiate with a man who, in your words, “follows the law of the jungle”?
MT
The crisis in the Middle East could indeed be resolved peacefully if Saddam Hussein were to obey the resolutions of the United Nations Security Council by withdrawing from Kuwait so that the legitimate government can be restored. Every day that he remains there is a new act of war. The sanctions are being drawn tighter and tighter and we hope they will work. But if they do not, the military option is there and the building up of forces continues. We must be ready for any contingency.
You ask about negotiations. But what is there to negotiate about? You do not negotiate with someone who marches into another country and kills so many people: you get him out, make him pay and see that he is never in a position to do these things again. [end p3]
Count Paolo Filo della Torre, La Repubblica
Prime Minister, do you think that we have definitely seen the end of Communism? Do you think that we will be able to trust Russia as friendly nation and as a possible ally?
MT
This century has seen both the rise and fall of communism, a relatively short lifespan when you think of it. In its heyday, communism believed that it would inevitably dominate the world, subsuming all national feeling and everything which gives life its infinite variety, replacing it with what was alleged to be a scientific system of conformity and uniformity. The very inhumanity and arrogance of the proposition makes one wonder how anyone could ever have believed in it. For communism is so plainly contrary to the human spirit. Now it is broken, finished.
We do not see the new Soviet Union as an enemy, but as a country groping its way towards good. As it does so we are able to establish steadily better relations and trust can begin to replace fear. Enormous credit for these changes is owed to Mr Gorbachev and the Nobel Peace Prize is a very well deserved tribute to the contribution which he personally has made in bringing about change in the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe. [end p4]
Count Paolo Filo della Torre, La Repubblica
Many countries in Eastern Europe are now following your model of economic policies and believe in privatisation. Do you think these changes will strengthen international relations?
MT
I think the peaceful revolution in Eastern Europe over the last twelve months has been a remarkable event and a very welcome one. It enables us to bring the countries of Eastern Europe back into the European mainstream where they belong. The Eastern Europe countries undoubtedly face very serious difficulties, the legacy of 40 years of communism. We in Western Europe have a duty to help them, above all by offering the prospect of membership of the European Community once democracy has taken root and their economies can sustain membership. We cannot say in one breath that they are part of Europe, and in the next our European Community club is so exclusive that they will not admit them. [end p5]
Count Paolo Filo della Torre, La Repubblica
Prime Minister, in your view what impact will the unification of Germany have on the international scenario, and especially in Europe?
MT
Germany will undoubtedly have great economic weight within Europe and has historically looked not just West but also to Eastern and Central Europe. I think it is a great achievement to have brought Germany to unification while preserving her position as a member of the western community of nations and of the NATO Alliance. We look forward to working with a united Germany as an ally, a partner and a friend. [end p6]
Count Paolo Filo della Torre, La Repubblica
Recently Britain joined the ERM. In Brussels many people see this as a change of policy and a conversion to the idea of “the United States of Europe”. Is Federalism on the British political agenda? Do you think that ru should have her own defence policy?
MT
Sterling's entry into ERM demonstrates our full commitment to Stage One of Economic and Monetary Union. It has long been our policy to join. Our conditions for entry have now been met. Participation in the ERM should help to reduce inflation and make our exchange rate more stable. But our policy on EMU remains unchanged: we are opposed to a single currency being imposed and advocate instead the market-led approach of the hard ecu. We see no prospect of a United States of Europe.
But there are many practical ways in which Europe can grow together. The Community should not stand still. We should adapt to the dramatic changes of the past year. The UK is preparing for the Inter-Governmental Conferences on EMU and Political Union.
Closer coordination of foreign and security policies is one element under discussion.
We should maintain our collective defence through the partnership between Europe and North America in NATO. The NATO Summit in London in July agreed that NATO should adapt. It is right that the Europeans should take on more responsibility for their own security. The overall aim should be to strengthen NATO through a more effective European input. [end p7]
Count Paolo Filo della Torre, La Repubblica
With the informal EC Heads of Government meeting in Rome later this month, and the European Council, also in Rome, in December, do you expect to see more progress towards a better understanding between the European nations?
MT
Perhaps you should ask me this question in December. All I would say is that we must remember that the European Community's internal development is only one subject on the agenda. There are vastly important global issues which need our attention: the situation in the Gulf, the problems in the Soviet Union, the international trade negotiations in the GATT, Eastern Europe;and need for Europe, the remarkable events which are taking place in South Africa. We shall need to give our full attention to these at the two European Councils under the Italian Presidency. Otherwise Europe will only confirm what some people fear: that it is an inward-looking organisation concerned only with what happens in its own quite small area of the globe. [end p8]
Count Paolo Filo della Torre, La Repubblica
Prime Minister, finally how do you see the Community developing over the next decade?
MT
I hope that the Community will continue to develop along the path of ever closer cooperation between independent sovereign states. Nationhood remains the focus of loyalty and sovereignty in the modern world. The revolutions of 1989 in Eastern Europe showed how deep that feeling is. We saw it, too, with Germany's unification, when people celebrated their sovereignty and independence. Europe will not be built by ignoring or suppressing this sense of nationhood, or by trying to turn us into regions rather than nations. We must avoid more intervention, more centralisation, more regulation and more bureaucracy. Our aim should be to see Europe become the greatest practical expression of political and economic liberty the world over. That may be a little different from the answer you wanted or the you would receive from some of my colleagues in other European countries. But I believe it is an honest one, which takes account of history and the true feelings of people. [end p9]
Questions from photocall follow:
Count Paolo Filo della Torre, La Repubblica
What do you think of the by-election?
MT
Well, we have had it before, we had it before and it is quite clear from what the people said as they came out of the polling station that a lot of them will return to their traditional vote in the General Election. It is very similar to a By-Election we had in 1986 and we recovered the seat. It is nevertheless very sad, very very sad and deeply disappointing.
Count Paolo Filo della Torre, La Repubblica
Not recorded.
MT
There is no encouragement involved in Labour policies in any way, So that that is a good thing.
Count Paolo Filo della Torre, La Repubblica
Prime Minister, do you think their position has any chance to win the next election?
MT
I most earnestly hope not. I will do my best to win. I do not because I think it would be so damaging to everything that Britain stands for. They still run socialist policies everytime - they try to give a different impression that all of their actions and they want more and more public spending more, they want more and more control over everything. [sic] They oppose everything which gets out property and savings and decision making powers to the people, central control is their principle and their practice. It is quite absurd when the countries of East Europe and the Soviet Union are getting rid of that they should still be going towards it. Any politicians who want …for themselves by centralising things are in danger. [end p10]
Count Paolo Filo della Torre, La Repubblica
But they claim their inflation rate is the same when you took office. sic
MT
Yes, but industry is in a very very different position and I must point out that their policies will have inflation higher for example they said they wanted us to go into the ERM at a lower exchange rate that would immediately put inflation up. They said that they do not want ERM to be so disinflationary - in other words that they are down on influence - they want to have a gross strategy [sic]and not anti-inflationary strategy so that they would put it up and all of that is absolutely in keeping. They hold the record level of inflation in the post-war period - 27 per cent - we don't.
Count Paolo Filo della Torre, La Repubblica
Do you think Thatcherism will suffer?
MT
Thatcherism is far longer, far older than Thatcher. Everything that is found [sic] and it will continue far longer than Thatcher. After all it's what the Eastern European countries and Soviet Union had wanted to do - it introduces market economy and a freedom and responsibility to the citizens and the limitation of government, socialism is the maximisation of government.