Interviewer
You do not often get an audience as rowdy as that, I suppose, Prime Minister?
Prime Minister
Oh very often, in Prime Minister's Questions.
Interviewer
Yes, they are much rowdier than that in Prime Minister's Questions and probably not as well disposed?
Prime Minister
Quite. [end p1]
Interviewer
I was going to ask you about your performance in the House of Commons or when you are meeting Heads of State, are you ever apprehensive, are you ever nervous before you get up and speak?
Prime Minister
Always and you would not speak well if you were not. I have been answering questions in the House every Tuesday and Thursday for ten years, when the House is in session. I am still just as nervous as I was at the beginning. It requires immense preparation, it usually takes me about four hours to prepare because I have no idea what the questions are and I know everyone will like to ask a topical one so I have to go through the papers very carefully.
But the moment you have started you forget about yourself completely. You think only about the answers and then it is all right.
Interviewer
Do you ever look at yourself on television, do you ever analyse your performances?
Prime Minister
No, I have only ever done so once. I cannot bear seeing myself. I think one would be most critical, far more critical than anyone else. [end p2]
But when we were going to have television in the House the cameras were in a completely different position from what you would expect normally so I did go and stand by the Dispatch Box and the cameras very kindly took a film of how it would look and that really was very useful. But that was not live, it was a kind of private performance.
Otherwise, the whole family knows that if I am in the news I go immediately and turn off the news. They turn it on so I have to go out until it is over.
Interviewer
You get embarrassed by yourself?
Prime Minister
I would be very very dissatisfied. You never know what you yourself look like, you cannot. You never know what you yourself sound like and you would think you looked different and sounded different from what you do.
Interviewer
Do you ever have any advice? Do people come to you and say: “Prime Minister, you should not have stood like that, perhaps you should not have worn that dress”? [end p3]
Prime Minister
We do not have half as much of that now as right at the beginning of television when they told you there were all sorts of things that you must not do.
But really if you have got to think about every single movement, you cannot think about what you are going to say and it is much more important to think about what you are going to say. So really in a way you have to forget yourself otherwise you look stilted.
Interviewer
You have been at No 10 for ten years now and are into the eleventh and you have seen your share of trouble and strife and success, triumph. What have been your worst moments?
Prime Minister
The worst moment undoubtedly was when the Argentinians invaded the Falkland Islands. I will never forget it when the news came that their fleet was on the way and we did not know whether it was just an exercise or whether they were going to invade. They are eight thousand miles away and the question was could we ever get them back if they landed? Some advice said: “No we cannot, we cannot get them back if we [sic] take them”. And you would think that it would have been impossible, eight thousand miles away, take three weeks to get there, three weeks forewarning, you would have thought it was impossible. [end p4]
But we had to do it. Public opinion required it. Someone had invaded British territory and the people were British, they had been British always and the Argentinians had not lived there.
And I will not forget calling together the Chiefs of Staff and then the Sir Henry LeachAdmiral coming in and saying: “Within forty-eight hours, Prime Minister, I can despatch a whole fleet because we are always ready for NATO”. And within forty-eight hours it was despatched.
And then we had three weeks when we negotiated and then we had the landing and that was another terrible time and during the whole of that Falklands campaign it was awful. But just before, before we landed, I had another visit from Harold Macmillan, he just came in to see me and he just said: “I am the senior of all the living Prime Ministers and I just want to offer you our full and total support and maybe to give you a little advice” which was so very welcome. He said: “Set up a small emergency committee of Cabinet, always with your Chiefs of Staff, not more than five and,” he said, “keep the Treasury out”.
I thought that was very good advice because really it was not a question of money, we had to recover those and we only had the bravery and professionalism of our people to rely on so I set up that emergency committee and we met every morning and every evening. [end p5]
Interviewer
Is this a good rule for all government, keep the Treasury out?
Prime Minister
No, no, no, it is only for emergencies, because you have in fact just like a household, just like a business, you have in fact to watch that you do not spend too much. [end p6]
Interviewer
With the worries and some of the terrible moments that you have had …
Prime Minister
Oh they were dreadful!
Interviewer
&dubellip; and some of the very proud moments, do you have any time for what everybody has, for personal worries?
Prime Minister
Well, at that time no, because every day was a worry and you know a number of ships were sunk and we lost some aircraft and every day was agony. Of course, if any member of the family is ill or there is difficulty, yes, of course you have the personal worries. [end p7]
We have been very lucky. You know Denis ThatcherDenis very well, you both belong to Lords Taveners! Well, everyone knows Denis, he is marvellous! Everyone knows Denis, he is lovely!
Interviewer
Why did our audience laugh when you mentioned Denis?
Prime Minister
Because he is regarded with great affection by everyone, because he has a tremendous knack of saying things that people would love to say but dare not and coming out it with just exactly in the best of the British way! We have been just jolly lucky! The whole family is very very close together although we are far away and so we have not had many personal worries.
Interviewer
Do you listen to Denis? Does Denis ever advise you?
Prime Minister
You cannot help hearing, you know, when he is talking! It is absolutely wonderful!
Yes, yes, because he will keep me in touch with groups of people who I might not otherwise be in touch with and also he feels very passionately about some things and does not hesitate to tell me - why should he? [end p8]
Interviewer
But if he tells you, do you take notice?
Prime Minister
Oh yes! Oh yes, you must take notice of what other people tell you.
Obviously, he is the first person who is trying to help, the first person who is trying to stop one from making mistakes. Yes, of course you take notice!
Interviewer
Do you worry about what people say about you?
Prime Minister
Do I worry?
Interviewer
Does criticism upset you?
Prime Minister
Well, I have had plenty of practice at dealing with criticism, plenty of it! If you are in politics, the whole of British politics is with a set-up Government and Opposition, so of course you are going to get criticism, of course you are, and you are going to get some which is totally unjustified and some which is quite cruel. [end p9]
Yes, it does upset you; it is bound to; you would not be human if it did not, but if I really see a terrible headline - and that is quite often - then I would not read the details if it is personal. If it is political, yes, you have got to read it - it may be right and you have got to take that into account.
Interviewer
Would you take notice of it?
Prime Minister
Yes. If it is political, yes, of course you do. You have to make a judgement as to whether it is right or wrong, but if it is personal and it is just vicious and just cruel, then no, I do not. I do not read it because I know that if I did read it, it would go round and round in one's mind and stop you from taking the decisions that you ought to take.
Interviewer
Would it move you to womanly tears, anything that was really harsh, really personal? [end p10]
Prime Minister
No, criticism of oneself would not - that is more if grievous things are happening to other people.
But you would not be able to put it out of your mind. You know when you first hear some bad news or someone says something horrid, it goes round and round, you cannot get away from it and you brood over it and it is best, therefore, that you do not take it into your mind because there is so much else to do.
Interviewer
Rather like Sir John Gielgud not reading any criticism of anything …
Prime Minister
I think John Gielgudhe was very wise and I am told that Lord Attlee, Prime Minister - Mr. Attlee as he then was - did not read the papers very much - the same thing.
Interviewer
Yes. Of course, people would say that you ought to listen to criticism more.
Prime Minister
Well I do read the papers quite a lot, the feature articles and the reports. Look! Tuesday and Thursday, every other question is critical, so I am not without criticism - but we do have some answers too! [end p11]
Interviewer
Oh yes, yes! You seem never stuck for an answer. Are you always certain of your ground?
Prime Minister
My goodness me, they would howl you down if you were stuck for an answer! They learn a technique. Some ask long questions and put all sorts of things in it at the beginning which are not right and hope that you will not pick them up; others think: “Well if I get in a quickie, she will not have time to think of the answer!” so you have all sorts of techniques.
Interviewer
And they do not seem to make any concession to the fact that you are a woman!
Prime Minister
Oh no, why should they? I do not make any concession to the fact that they are men (laughter and applause). They need it sometimes!
Interviewer
Chastising?
Do you prefer working with men? [end p12]
Prime Minister
No. You work with personalities, you work with someone who is the right person for the job and you do not really think whether they are men or women.
Interviewer
You have said in the past that you make your mind up about people within the first ten seconds - unless you have been misquoted - and you very rarely change your mind after that.
Prime Minister
I think you get very quickly a kind of chemistry. There is always a chemistry. Some people you very quickly get on with and you know you are going to get on with them even though you disagree. You might be different politically, have different political views, but you can get on with them and you do make up your mind very quickly. Then, later, you might think: “Well, that was a pretty harsh judgement; I wonder whether it was quite right?” Often, it does turn out to be right but there is a kind of instinct.
Interviewer
Do you think you are a good judge of people? [end p13]
Prime Minister
I do not know. It is more an instinct of chemistry really. Most people, you either take to or there are people who you know would be very difficult to work with.
Interviewer
Do you think you have ever been wrong about people? Do you think you are a good judge, first of all?
Prime Minister
Once or twice I think I have been rather harsh and then I have corrected it because people have worked extremely well and it may be that when I saw them at the beginning they were really rather shy and some people, the first time you see them, do not show just how good they are. [end p14]
Interviewer
What do you like to see in a person, what attracts you to a person?
Prime Minister
I like them to be able to put their viewpoint very clearly and very well and not to be afraid, no-one has anything to be afraid of in coming to see me. No, they have not - I heard someone laugh - they have not, ever, they never have anything to be afraid of because I am only concerned really to get at the root of the problems and to try to solve them.
So obviously I am interested in what they have to say but sometimes the staff will tell me, “Look, do you not realise, they are a little bit shy or they cannot in fact find the words”. Well, I cannot sometimes so I understand that. [end p15]
But I like them to know their subject, I like them to put their viewpoint quite fearlessly. And I tell you who does it marvellously, you get some children coming in, they are quite fearless and they put things in a totally different way from the kind of jargon that we usually hear.
But I like them to be able to argue their point, and we do argue, and put their viewpoint and be prepared to discuss it and be very human about it all.
Interviewer
Whether you like the image or not, you have the image of being a dominating personality, which you have - a dominating personality - and even domineering in Cabinet, that you do not like people who argue with you?
Prime Minister
That is absolutely wrong. Look, there would not be much point in being a Prime Minister unless you were a dominating personality because you are dealing all the time with other Heads of Government and Heads of State who are also dominating personalities.
But yes I do like arguing, absolutely contrary to the image, we argue things out and that is the way we come to a conclusion. [end p16]
Interviewer
But in the end they should agree with you?
Prime Minister
In the end we come to the right conclusion.
Interviewer
We were talking about talking to Cabinet. Do you feel that you are in touch with the people or how do you keep in touch with the man in the street.
Prime Minister
Oh, frequently by going out and about. We have regular visits to other parts of the country and when I have such a visit I usually have a very, very varied programme. Last Monday morning, for example, we were at Warwick University but looking at some of the latest research and some of the methods of training in conjunction with people from industry. The week before I was at the Science Museum talking to children and then also I went to a Heart and Chest Hospital in Bethnal Green and talked to both all the staff and all the patients.
And when I am out in the North, North-West, South-West, I will usually go to some social occasion, something in the Social Services. I think the recent one when I went down near Bristol was to a place which treated people who had been on drugs and tried to get them out of it and it was fascinating. Also to something educational and then to some factory or office. [end p17]
So something of the creation of the wealth and industrial wealth and commerce of the country and then some of the Social Services.
Interviewer
But do you hear the people's criticisms, the people's complaints?
Prime Minister
Oh yes.
Interviewer
How can you hear them?
Prime Minister
Well, first when you go around they will tell you and secondly by asking. Thirdly, by my own constituency. Do not forget we are all constituency members and I am regularly in my constituency.
Interviewer
Do you take your surgery? [end p18]
Prime Minister
I take a surgery about once every three weeks, I have it by appointment. I am the Member of Parliament for my area and I must be available for their personal cases.
Interviewer
Do they tell you what they do not like?
Prime Minister
Oh yes, they do not tell you what they do like.
Interviewer
What do they not like at the moment about what you are doing?
Prime Minister
There are always a large number of personal cases and of course the worst thing at the moment is inflation, which they do not like, it is too high. We got it right down, we got it right down to below 3 per cent and unfortunately it is up and the way of getting it down, I am afraid, has to be quite a tough taxation policy so that we have a budget surplus and not a deficit and also high interest rates. That, I am afraid, does cause trouble, particularly to those who have recently bought their houses and that I can understand. [end p19]
But nevertheless we still have to take the action to get inflation down.
Interviewer
Can you give them a word of comfort, the first-time buyers, the people who are having problems with their mortgages, you must have a word of comfort for them for this New Year?
Prime Minister
I understand exactly how they feel, of course I do, we had to start off by buying a home. We had a lower rate of interest but later, of course, in the 1970s inflation went very very high and people saw their savings halved because inflation just ate into them.
If we left inflation and did not take the right action, people's savings would be decimated and very soon we should have higher unemployment. So we have to take these measures, it bears hardly on some people. On others, who are savers of course, they get a bigger interest rate on their savings. So it bears very hardly on some people and when we get it down then of course the interest rates will come down. But not until.
Interviewer
You will be getting it down? [end p20]
Prime Minister
It will come down, yes, it came down before and it will come down again.
Interviewer
Because there will be an election in two and a half years time?
Prime Minister
I think you must give me credit for this, I have done whatever has had to be done, regardless of when an election came. You really cannot change your policies if you believe in them. And people would not respect you if you did.
Interviewer
That is true.
Prime Minister
It would be absolutely out of character with me if we said: “Well we cannot do that because there is going to be an election”. You say: “We have to do this because it is right and people will understand if we explain why.”
Interviewer
Will they though, because the last opinion polls, as the old year came to an end, showed you dropping heavily in the opinion polls? [end p21]
Prime Minister
If, when you have got the inflation rate at the moment as it is, although it is low compared with what it used to be, and when you have got a balance of trade deficit, then obviously they are worried. But if you look around, equally, the strength of the economy is very considerable, the standard of living is still higher than it has ever been before and expenditure is under control.
So we have got two particular problems to deal with but against a background of a very strong Britain and a very respected Britain. So it is much easier to deal with than the much worse situation was some ten years ago.
Interviewer
But the resolve which you have shown and which has been perhaps your greatest asset - your resolve and determination - is now perhaps being seen as pig headedness?
Prime Minister
Oh, well I hope not, I hope not. I do things because we have worked out what is the right thing to do, we had a very strong set of convictions. I believe that the greatest achievement is that because of what we have done at home, Britain's reputation stands high abroad. [end p22]
And I think people know that the Government, which I am privileged to lead, will do whatever has to be done to get things right again as far as inflation and the balance of trade is concerned.
And you see it was so much worse when we came in and had to tackle it. Inflation had been very high indeed and we got it down by the same methods as we are using now.
Interviewer
But now the problem is arising again and you are once again having to pit your iron resolve against these problems. Can you go on doing this?
Prime Minister
Yes, inflation will come down.
Interviewer
But I mean you personally?
Prime Minister
Can I go on?
Interviewer
Have you the energy, have you strength - age affects us all? [end p23]
Prime Minister
That is a very probing and very broad hint question is it not?
Interviewer
I am not suggesting you retire at all.
Prime Minister
Mr. Wogan, I am fit, full of vitality, full of beans, full of energy.
Interviewer
What do you do to relax?
Prime Minister
I read, I listen to music, we would go out to theatre, which is fascinating, I would go out for a walk, and we would have friends in and just talk, that is really the nicest thing to have friends in and just talk.
Interviewer
Do you have friends outside politics?
Prime Minister
Yes, of course I have friends outside politics. I myself was in industry and I was a lawyer. Denis ThatcherDenis is in industry and as you know he does all kinds of things like Sports Aid Foundation [end p24] and Lords Taveners and we raise money for good causes.
Interviewer
Excellent, but I was just thinking about your personal life.
Prime Minister
It is very busy.
Interviewer
But you have no time for it.
Prime Minister
Look, there are all sorts of things that just plain have to be done and just have to be fitted in. You have to get in touch with the family and you have to see that at the end of the week everything is back in place in the house for the start of next week, that things are reasonably tidy, that there is food in the fridge and food in the larder, that things are pressed and all right.
Interviewer
I cannot see you playing the role of housewife. [end p25]
Prime Minister
Beatrice RobertsMy mother was both a dressmaker and very good at Do-It-Yourself and a very good cook and I was brought up in that way.
Interviewer
Are you a good cook?
Prime Minister
Yes, and I like cooking. I do not have much time for it, we do very simple things these days and actually simpler things perhaps are quite good for you, they do not put on quite as much weight.
Interviewer
Quite.
Prime Minister
We all think about that.
Interviewer
Indeed I complimented you before about it. Are you conscious of your figure, conscious of your weight? [end p26]
Prime Minister
Look, in the kind of busy life I lead you obviously cannot eat too little, you would not have the energy. But sometimes you put on weight and when you do, you have just got to take it off otherwise it will just go on. You have got to have a few days or weeks in which you do not eat the things you would love to eat.
Interviewer
Do you ever get ill?
Prime Minister
No, the worst I have had really has been colds which I get like everyone else. But even then it has never stopped me, I have never missed a Question Time or a meeting for illness.
Interviewer
Is it mind over matter?
Prime Minister
No, no, some of us are just born very fit and healthy.
Interviewer
Well, you are a very strong person, you see, do you expect everybody to be that strong, everybody to be able to cope, everybody to be able to help themselves? [end p27]
Prime Minister
Maybe I do and I suppose if you are going to be a Cabinet Minister you have to. But I just am very much aware that they have got families as well and they too remind me.
You know recently we had a marvellous evening at No 10. Mr. Rostropovich - the marvellous conductor and cellist - wrote to me and said that he would love to come and perform at No 10 on the cello and could he come. Well, of course it was just marvellous and I thought well now, what can I do?
We invited the Prince and Princess of Wales because it was just after his fortieth birthday and we had not entertained them and all members of the Cabinet and their wives and they all came and said: “It was absolutely wonderful to have wives and everything together” and I thought that I must do it more often. We do it to a certain extent but you just have to involve the families as well. We do have three big occasions in the summer when they all come.
Interviewer
Are there any things you regret you cannot do, as Prime Minister?
Prime Minister
Yes, quite a lot of things. I do not get out walking as much, there are all sorts of things that I cannot do. I cannot go out and see some of the museums and art galleries. [end p28]
Well, you just cannot go out without some kind of security, that is the real thing, you just cannot dash out and do shopping, you just cannot dash out and pay an unexpected call.
What you can do, and what I frequently do, is when you are out and about you can do the unexpected. You can get out of the car and say: “Look, I am going to go walkabout here”. And you do that and it is totally unexpected.
Or I can say: “Look, this morning I have had an invitation to go and see various things” it may be a hospital, it may be something that someone is doing and they want me to see it, and we can go there very quickly. But the informality has gone and I am afraid we are not able to say what we are doing in advance very much.
Interviewer
Do you crave anonymity ever?
Prime Minister
Yes, of course you do, because you cannot disguise yourself. I remember going out once with a scarf round my head and sunglasses on and a big coat, I had not gone a hundred yards before someone said: “Hello, Mrs. Thatcher”.
Interviewer
It does not really work? [end p29]
Prime Minister
No, it does not and it would be strange if it did, would it not?
Interviewer
Do you ever get fed up with the job?
Prime Minister
Never.
Interviewer
Oh, you must do, you must sometimes think I cannot stand any more of this?
Prime Minister
No, it is the most fascinating job in the world, being at the centre of things, knowing that you can help to shape their future. But it means that you have to think very carefully because every opportunity is an opportunity to do the wrong thing or the right thing so we have to be very careful. [end p30]
Interviewer
Do you ever think you do the wrong thing?
Prime Minister
You are always worried about it, constantly worried. [end p31]
Interviewer
But you never admit to it?
Prime Minister
I am sure I must have got some things wrong (laughter), we all do don't we?
Interviewer
Of course! It is just that you …
Prime Minister
Just what?
Interviewer
I just thought it would be …
Prime Minister
Just what? [end p32]
Interviewer
&dubellip; it would be a human thing to say …
Prime Minister
Come on! Come out with it! (laughter)
Interviewer
It would be a human thing … it would be a human thing to say: “I made a mess of that!” The public might warm to you more than they do.
Prime Minister
I think you are not doing too badly, are you?
No. We should not have inflation where it is. You are quite right, we should not. We got it down, it should not be up. That, I think, is one of the most difficult things.
I am sure I have done other things wrong. It would not help if I gave a catalogue of them.
Interviewer
Why not?
Prime Minister
Because I would get it thrown at me every Tuesday and Thursday for ever more, world without end, in the House of Commons. [end p33]
Interviewer
I think they might make themselves look silly if they did, if you admitted to human failings and to political mistakes.
Prime Minister
Oh I have plenty of human failings, who has not?
Interviewer
Tell me about your view of the tremendous happenings in Eastern Europe lately!
May I ask you about Mr. Gorbachev particularly, because he appears to be in some difficulty now? Would you have a word of advice for him or if you were in his position, what would you do?
Prime Minister
Where shall I start?
Look! I met Mr. Gorbachev before he was so prominent as he is now. He came over on a visit to Britain at the invitation of the Inter-Parliamentary Union. We had already realised that he had a great future because we had watched his great advance in the Soviet Union and he came to a Sunday lunch, which is the very nicest time to come really, it is a kind of family lunch, at Chequers with Mrs. Gorbachev and they are very much a couple; they are very much a pair and she takes a great interest in everything and is very well-informed. [end p34]
I at once realised that he was quite different from any other Russian leader I had ever met. You know, normally they are rather heavy; they get out a whole brief and they solemnly read through it and you ask them a question and they give the written answer and it is not the answer and you ask them again and they go on. He was quite different. He could discuss and argue easily and quickly and so could Mrs. Gorbachev and so we got on very well indeed and had very good discussions and they were critical because he knew that we are great friends and allies with the United States - it was at a critical time. He was due to go at about four o'clock. At four o'clock, I said: “I know you have another engagement at the Soviet Embassy!” “No, no, no! That does not matter!” and he stayed until six.
The discussions went well; they were very thorough; each of us with different views but each respecting the other's right to them and each with a common interest and the common interest is this: we really are the last generation that will remember the last War and anyone who remembers the last War who is in power, has a bounden duty so to order things that we never get another war, and that is the interest of our generation in the Soviet Union and here and the world over, and so we think we have a special duty and so we talked and the press said at the end: “What was he like?” and I immediately said: “He is a man I can do business with!” That was a correct judgement and everyone who has met him since has agreed. [end p35]
He then became Secretary-General and then President and then I think the unexpected happened - and in politics the unexpected does happen. He looked at the position of the Soviet Union, he realised that they were never going to get on top of us militarily because we were determined to defend ourselves and determined to defend our freedom and we were probably technically ahead in the West and so that was not going to do them any good; and he also realised that all their propaganda was not working; in fact, their economy was not working, they had a low standard of living and people were complaining. So he said things have to change.
That was a man of conviction that they had to change, of the courage to say they had to change in a Communist country and of the boldness to put the changes into effect.
Since then, it has gone much further and faster than anyone thought.
Interviewer
Does it worry you?
Prime Minister
It gives us more hope than we have had for a very long time.
Does it worry me? Yes, because times when you get a kind of fragmentation of great empires are times of uncertainty. People tend to get euphoric and you must not. [end p36]
The lesson of this century is that you must always be prepared to defend your liberty and deter any aggressor. So we have to watch very carefully indeed and as one thing after another has happened, one new hope, one wonderful thing in each of those European countries, and I will never forget my visit to Poland and Solidarity in that great church and singing their hymns. They thirst for democracy, freedom and justice. That gives us enormous hope because I do not think there has been any case of two democracies going to war one with another. Other countries have attacked democracy - two democracies have never gone to war.
Interviewer
Let us talk about here now!
To whom will you pass the flame?
Prime Minister
That does not depend on me, it depends upon whom others choose.
Interviewer
To whom would you like to pass it on?
Prime Minister
That would jeopardise his or her chances enormously (laughter) if I were thought to be trying to put anyone in a privileged position. [end p37]
Interviewer
Do you think that there is, even within your own Party, a core of people who do not like you?
Prime Minister
I expect so. I mean, there are always some people in politics who are very ambitious and obviously, they are always looking to the time when there will be a change. Of course they are! That is the nature of politics.
Interviewer
With a certain amount of snobbism?
Prime Minister
I think snobbism is a thing of the past, I really do. I do not think that people look at people that way now at all. You look at people for what they are, regardless of their background. I know I would not be here if there were any snobbism left in politics. How could I? I would not.
Interviewer
What sort of hints would you like to give to your successor? What would you tell him or her to do? [end p38]
Prime Minister
I do not know how you would get through the difficult times you had unless you were a person of conviction, that is to say, you worked things out that you believed in. You believed in them enough to go on even though people said: “No, no, no! You must stop or do something different!” You believed in them enough to go on and you could withstand the hurt that you get. So you have got to believe in what you are doing. You cannot just borrow beliefs or convictions - you would not get through.
Interviewer
Is there not a danger that because you have got it right for so long that you will not recognise it when you are beginning to get it wrong?
Prime Minister
No. I have said to you that I do recognise that inflation is too high, I do recognise what is wrong, and we are always thinking forward.
Do not forget, there are twenty-one people in Cabinet and they are quite lively meetings. I cannot ask you to listen to them but I assure you they are quite lively meetings and we have a very good Cabinet now and we do not stop at Cabinet. I am often having scientists in, people in the environment, people doing research. I have a scientific background so I am constantly in touch with them. If you are used to the scientific method, you are constantly used to challenging your beliefs and testing them and that also is very useful. [end p39]
Interviewer
Will you be able to settle down to a quiet life when it is all finished?
Prime Minister
No, never! I shall always be active. We were brought up that way. For us, work was a way of life and it was a sin to be idle, so we shall always be very active, always. Denis ThatcherDenis is very active now, as you know, both in work and in private charitable work.
Interviewer
Are you planning for retirement? Are you saying: “I shall do a little neddlework or &dubellip;”
Prime Minister
No! (applause) In spite of the fact that I like needlework, but I am not planning to increase the amount I do.
Interviewer
So the next election, if you manage to win the votes of the populists, you will be back in power again and the next one after that?
Prime Minister
I think I have got a few more years left in me and it is for the people to say whether they would like to use those or not, [end p40]
Interviewer
Your great friend, the late Airey Neave, said that the greatest quality that you had was luck.
Prime Minister
I think you must only have done about half the quotation.
Interviewer
But that was the general impetus.
Prime Minister
Hard work … the greatest quality I had was luck.
Interviewer
Are you are a lucky politician?
Prime Minister
I think I have only been lucky because I have done a lot of hard work and a lot of thought. I think you look lucky if you have worked hard at something.
Interviewer
May I finally put to you the question which I suppose is exercising most people in the country and since it is topical and relevant. You must be aware of the great public sympathy for the ambulancemen and women.
Can you give them any words of comfort? Can you give us any words of comfort on this? [end p41]
Prime Minister
Not more than I have done. The pay claim that we are talking about is the pay claim that came in last spring, early summer. 84 per cent of the people in the Health Service settled then between April and July for between 6.5 and 6.8 per cent. The ambulance people did not and so there has been a revised award over a period of eighteen months from between 9 per cent and 16.3 per cent, according to where you work and according to your qualifications. So they have had that extra award. It really would not be fair to all of those who settled last spring and did not go on strike or do anything like that if we were to go further.
Interviewer
If I may say so, to bring it to a close, we see this dispute going on?
Prime Minister
And I hope they will settle. I really hope they will settle. So many of them are still at work. This is not like them.
Interviewer
Mrs. Thatcher, it has been a great pleasure to talk to you. Thank you for coming here!
Prime Minister
It has been a great pleasure for me. Thank you for inviting me! (applause)