Speeches, etc.

Margaret Thatcher

TV Interview for TV-AM (Strasbourg European Council)

Document type: Speeches, interviews, etc.
Venue: Palais des Congres, Strasbourg
Source: Thatcher Archive: COI transcript
Journalist: Maya Evren, TV-AM
Editorial comments: 1330-1500 press conference and interviews.
Importance ranking: Major
Word count: 1096
Themes: Employment, European Union (general), Economic, monetary & political union, Foreign policy (Central & Eastern Europe), Foreign policy (Western Europe - non-EU)

Interviewer

Prime Minister, you have suffered a defeat on the setting of a date for the inter-governmental conference, will you still go on fighting for your agenda?

Prime Minister

Oh yes, but they are not exactly wanting an inter-governmental conference soon. They are not setting it up until after the German Election next year, which is in November, they are not setting it up for another year. And I was not the only one who was reluctant to have an inter-governmental conference, I was not alone. But you can call one on a majority and the François MitterrandPresident summed up to say there was the necessary majority.

Of course we will go because one of the papers that will be discussed there is one of which we are the author and we shall be very active in trying to pursue its objectives. [end p1]

Interviewer

Germany feels the same way as you do about a Central Bank which it does not seem to want, shares your ideas as well, strong ideas about inflation, did it side with you on this?

Prime Minister

No, but it was very anxious that there should be full democratic accountability to our national Parliaments and I understood precisely why. Because the Bundesbank has certain duties laid upon it by the German Parliament and of course one is its bounden duty to keep down prices and to hold down inflation. At the moment that is diluted by other central banks of countries which are not so keen on the overriding priority of keeping down inflation then it could have a very adverse effect on the German currency.

Interviewer

Why then did Germany want to set a date for the conference at this Summit?

Prime Minister

I do not think that she was mad keen to do so but there was a majority to do so and Germany was not prepared to stand out against it. But as I indicated, it will not start until after the German election and there is no final date placed upon it at all. [end p2]

So it will have to go very thoroughly into all the questions and one of those things will be the powers of the Bundesbank and any question of altering those powers because you could not go ahead with Delors Stages 2 and 3, and I hope we shall not, without altering the powers of the Bundesbank.

Interviewer

There was a defeat too on the Social Charter. Does it not seem, at this Summit, as if your views did not carry much influence on two major decisions?

Prime Minister

On the contrary, on the Social Charter they carried a great deal of influence because some of the eleven voted for a Social Charter believing it was just a solemn declaration and not a basis for action at all. And I voted for it [sic] on the grounds that it was a basis for action and so I was not surprised when the Commission tried then to bounce through approval of their forty-three proposals and seventeen directives, not in the least bit surprised. Some of the others were and immediately got that sentence of the Communique out, they would not have it.

So in practical terms, when it came to an action document, many of them were absolutely with me and got that part of the Communique out. I had always expected the Commission would try that so I was not taken by surprise. [end p3]

Interviewer

Nevertheless, it does seem as if the Social Charter is only a declaration of intent, why take it as an action programme?

Prime Minister

Do not ask me, that is what the Commission is doing. I knew it was an action programme, I have been telling the others it is an action programme—forty-three proposals and seventeen directives—and they should not think it was only a declaration of intent. Some of them nevertheless said: “Oh, but that is all it is” and they were quite shocked when they tried to bounce the other things through. I was not shocked, but we just threw it out.

Interviewer

On the question of German reunification, do you think that this Summit has brought us any closer to that?

Prime Minister

No, I do not think it has changed things at all. The first sentence of the Communique is taken directly from a NATO Communique which has been there for a very long time as a ritual sentence. We have added a lot of other sentences which means that any movement on that must take into account all of the other obligations that Germany has signed her name to. That is the full obligations of the NATO Alliance, not just one phrase, and also what is called the Helsinki Final Act which as you know was signed by thirty-four countries in 1975 and one of those clauses says that we agree that none of us [end p4] will violate the borders of any other country, moreover, those borders can only be changed by peaceful agreement.

So any change of those borders could only come about that way and by peaceful agreement among us. And then of course there is the Four Power Agreement of Berlin as well. So it is pretty well hedged around.

Interviewer

There are many people in Britain of a generation that fought in the war that are afraid of a reunified Germany. Do you share those fears?

Prime Minister

As I said to Helmut Kohl when we had the Paris Summit on 18 November which President Mitterrand called quickly, German people may have many emotions but the rest of us also have very many emotions as well and those must have equal consideration in any change that is made. But then we went further and said that it must take into account the Helsinki Final Act.

Interviewer

Finally, can I ask you, you tend to see Europe in practical rather than in visionary terms, but could I ask you what being a European means to you? [end p5]

Prime Minister

Vision does not work unless you translate it into practical terms and they talk a lot more about the vision and the distant scene, etc, and we get down, this is the way Britain works, to doing the practical way ahead. And that is why, when it comes to considering what we actually do, we are actually in the lead on many many things.

Interviewer

Will you always be British first and European second?

Prime Minister

Yes, and I expect the French to be French first and European second. Look at their Bicentennial, look at their great parade, their great military parade. Look at the Italians, they are Italian and we love them for it. Good Heavens, I do not want them to be any different.

What I do want is each of us to work together, knowing and cherishing our differences. We will be much stronger that way.