Speeches, etc.

Margaret Thatcher

TV Interview for Channel 4 (Strasbourg European Council)

Document type: Speeches, interviews, etc.
Venue: Palais des Congres, Strasbourg
Source: Thatcher Archive: COI transcript
Journalist: Nik Gowing, Channel 4
Editorial comments: 1330-1500 press conference and interviews.
Importance ranking: Major
Word count: 1270
Themes: Employment, European Union (general), Economic, monetary & political union, European Union Single Market, Transport

Interviewer

Prime Minister, by taking a lone stand on a conference on monetary and economic union and the Social Charter, there is an impression now that Britain is really giving up any claims to the leadership of the European Community at this very key time, giving it up to France and Germany?

Prime Minister

We were not actually alone on either if you look behind the immediate headlines. First, eleven of them voted for the Social Charter, which we did not, but quite a number of them voted for it on the basis that it was only a solemn declaration and not a basis for action. I knew that was not true, that the Commission had forty-three proposals and seventeen directives to bring forward, and when they tried to bring those forward for approval, just by the European Council, just like that, the European Council threw it out—not just one—the European Council threw it out. We were united in throwing that out and saying the directives must come forward singly and be considered in the usual way. [end p1]

That was not actually being isolated, that was actually pointing out what the case was and having it proved to my own satisfaction and others then throwing out something which we would never have agreed to.

On the European Monetary Union, the François MitterrandPresident summed up by saying “There was a sufficient majority to call an inter-governmental conference” . There were others as well as we who were none too much in favour of it.

Interviewer

What about the overall impression though of Britain's role in Europe at the moment, that Britain is in a minority of one in several key issues?

Prime Minister

Well what?

Interviewer

On monstary union and the Social Charter.

Prime Minister

No, no, I have just dealt with that. You are not wholly accurate in portraying it that way. [end p2]

Interviewer

Would you say that Britain is now fully in step with the way Europe is moving or would you say that we are still to a certain extent isolated in terms of the public image?

Prime Minister

You go on saying isolated. Look, it was we who got the Community budget sorted out to the advantage of the Community and with a rebate of £10 billion by next year to Britain. That was not being isolated, it was putting a very good case. It was we who got the Common Agricultural Policy sorted out because it was producing surplus after surplus after surplus of food we could not eat and the money was not going to the farmers year after year, so we got that sorted out, we led on that. On the Single European Act, which is the Internal Market, which is the Common Market, then it was acknowledged upstairs that when it comes to translating what we have agreed into action we are ahead, we are in the lead.

That is European integration, that is not being isolated, it is being very very effective indeed. On the Social Charter, as I have indicated, some voted for it believing it had no effect whatsoever. They found very quickly they were wrong and then they threw out an attempt to get the directives approved in bulk. That was not being isolated.

On the European Monetary Union we were not alone in not wanting an inter-governmental conference but we shall go to it and one of the two papers to be considered is one of which Britain is the author. [end p3]

Now that is not being isolated, you mouth that as if you are a parrot. It is not correct. We are actually taking a very very effective part and that is actually why we are listened to and why we have a colossal correspondence and messages throughout Europe for the line we take.

Interviewer

So effectively you are saying that the image of Britain in Europe is incorrect given what you are now pursuing?

Prime Minister

That is correct, the image is incorrect. We are very European and we are working for a particular kind of Europe which many other people want as well, not one that ties us up in bureaucratic detail, and we are actually winning.

Just let me give you an example this week. For years we have been working for cheaper air fares, so has Holland, the two of us. We got nowhere with Europe, they wanted to keep their regulations, they wanted to keep their cosy cartels. We said no, it is ridiculous we should pay so much to fly to Europe when we can fly across the Atlantic more cheaply.

We and Holland had to agree bilateral arrangements because we could not get the Community to listen. This week we won and we have broken through with the possibility of cheaper air fares and that will soon be implemented. That is a classic British success. [end p4]

For ages we have been trying to get Germany to agree to take off lorry quotas and to enable our lorries to pick up loads across Europe just as theirs can pick up loads in Britain and also shipping the same. All right, we are breaking through with lorries too so that ours will be able to pick up loads across Europe.

We have worked for ages on it but we are winning, it is our kind of Europe, getting rid of some of the bureaucracy, which is going to come through in the end.

Interviewer

There is increasing pressure, particularly from Chancellor Kohl, Mr Andreotti, and also from the President of the European Parliament to move towards the European Parliament having greater democratic accountability for Europe. What is your view going to be on this?

Prime Minister

That we must have democratic accountability, that the most effective democratic accountability is the way we work at the moment which is the Council of Europe which is Ministers decided, there are twelve of us, and Ministers decide. Each of those Ministers is answerable to his own national Parliament and that is very intimate and detailed accountability and there is no substitute for it. Any accountability through Europe is very very different from that and nothing like as strong, very very weak compared with that and I do not think you can get effective [end p5] democratic accountability through the European Parliament. Neither I think does Chancellor Kohl because if you look at the Communique it was he who insisted that we strengthen democratic accountability through our national Parliaments. And that is not surprising because you know why and I do, because the Bundesbank is answerable to the German Parliament and it is the creation of German Statute and its powers are the creation of German Statute.

So Chancellor Kohl was very much more on my side than on the side of strengthening the European Parliament democratic accountability.

Interviewer

Finally, what message do you think is being sent from this Summit in terms of the political cooperation among the Twelve on the issue of Eastern Europe?

Prime Minister

That the way of working we now have, the confidence we have in one another, the way we come together twice a year is very effective not only when we come together, when we need to get on to one another quickly, as we did in the Paris Summit on 18 November. We are a very effective body for taking effective action and getting help to those in need and also for influencing events through the twelve of us putting out effective communiques. [end p6]

Interviewer

And Britain fully committed?

Prime Minister

Fully committed, fully committed, and always has been. Half our history has been spent in Europe and European history has affected us very much indeed. Yes, our future lies in the European Economic Community and we are very much a part of it, make no mistake, and we are listened to.