Interviewer
Prime Minister, this was billed initially, as many hoped it was going to be, the “Environment Summit” , the Summit which at the end one could say the environment dominated. Don't you think since very many new initiatives have not been taken, no new bodies set up, that people, especially young people, are going to be slightly disappointed?
Prime Minister
Not in the least! If you get a Summit that merely sets up a lot of new bodies, it is not dealing with the actual problems. This is one which has dealt with the actual problems, is one of the most constructive and far-reaching Summits I have ever attended. The atmosphere was marvellous and the agreement almost complete, so I think young people and people the world over should be very pleased at the constructive, far-reaching nature of the decisions we have reached.
Interviewer
What practical elements can you give as an example to young people now that could make them feel encouraged? [end p1]
Prime Minister
A great many on the environment. We are already working together very closely, but we are very conscious of the things which still need to be done and I think the main one is that we need what is called a big international agreement with regard to the gases which give rise to the greenhouse effect. We have already had one on the ozone layer.
And, of course, we are looking very much more closely at all of the immediate things which we can do. It is the longest part of the Summit, if you read it through, about the environment.
Also for young people and all people, parents, people everywhere, who are worried to death about the drug problem. It used not to exist in our young day. Unfortunately, now, some of them appear to young people to be easy to get and are quite devastating in their effect. Now we have got the extra one of crack.
We have been tackling it two ways: first, by trying to stop the drug dealers from hanging on to their money, by taking it away from them, and if ever we got them to court and they were convicted, they are not only given a prison sentence but they have to forfeit and we follow all the money they have made from drugs, so they cannot come out of prison and think they have got a nice little packet stowed away—they will not have. [end p2]
Now we are looking at international arrangements for following through the way they sell in one country, get paid in one country, and launder that money through other banks or through others. We have got to get at that. We have got to get at those flows and we have got to stop those.
We are working on the other end to tell young people about the terrible effects of these drugs, how they may be approached and how not to get involved.
So we are trying to stop the supply and stop the demand.
Interviewer
What do you hope to achieve at this drug conference next year in Britain?
Prime Minister
That one in Britain is to act on the demand end. Many people have a good deal of experience about how best to persuade young people never to get involved, how to get them to know the signs, how to get them to realise how someone may approach them or give them something free in order to get them hooked; to tell them and to let them know that there are an overwhelming number of people who are trying to keep out of that and how they should do it.
Secondly, those who unfortunately have tried drugs and got hooked on them, how we can help them, how we can get them off drugs, how we can rehabilitate them and let them come right back into the community as a whole and lead normal lives once again. [end p3]
There is a lot of information known about these things and we want to exchange the best so that we can all carry out the best in our own countries.
Interviewer
Moving on to a slightly different subject, the French have levelled various accusations at you all week; they have responded angrily to some of the remarks that you made initially on the French Revolution; M. Rocard himself accused you of social cruelty in your own country. How do you feel about remarks like that?
Prime Minister
Well, you said they have been levelling accusations at me all week. If they have, I have not heard them. Mr. Rocard told me that the remarks which were attributed to him were not in any way similar to what he said. President Mitterrand has gone out of his way to point out yes, other countries had different ideas about where human rights started and one cannot deny history; one cannot deny the Magna Carta here; one cannot deny the Old Testament and the New Testament and what they say—they are facts; one cannot deny the Bill of Rights that we had in our country soon after we had our quiet revolution in 1688–89; one cannot deny the fantastic constitution of the United States of America in 1776 that everyone should be entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness and it is the government's task to serve the people and not the people the government. Those are facts. You cannot rewrite history. [end p4]
What the French are saying is, whatever those facts are, as far as France was concerned, human rights came to France two hundred years ago and therefore they are entitled to celebrate that, but they cannot deny the history of others nor do they attempt to in any way.
Interviewer
So two hundred years on, relations between the British and French are as good as ever?
Prime Minister
They are very good. I have had every consideration, every possible consideration, every possible courtesy and friendliness.
Interviewer
Moving briefly on to domestic issues, the question of the continuing rail dispute, possibly another strike on Tuesday, chaos on the roads. Don't you think commuters are thinking it is time that the Prime Minister stepped in perhaps to help break the deadlock and relieve them of their misery?
Prime Minister
No, I do not think commuters or anyone else wants to go back to the days when the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom spent half his time trying to sort out trade union disputes over beer and sandwiches in Downing Street. [end p5]
The people to sort out the dispute are the management of British Railways and the people who work at British Railways. That is the way to do it. They negotiate; they must have regard to the reality; they must have regard to the tax payer who already pays £500 million a year to British Railways as a subsidy; they must have regard to the fact that in the South-East, for example, a one percent increase in the wage bill leads to a one percent increase in fares and if they put up fares too much, they will just lose more business as they have been losing business in the past.
No, I do not think people want the Prime Minister to go back to the beer and sandwiches at No. 10 and eternal strikes and going along to No. 10. No, it is for industry to sort out those matters and get them back working again and the penalty if they do not is they will lose more and more business and that will not help anyone.
We have been putting a lot of investment into British Rail, electrifying it, and we want it to work and to work well and to serve the travelling public and I think all the best people who work in it want that too.
Interviewer
If there is no solution, would perhaps privatisation be the answer? [end p6]
Prime Minister
I think eventually privatisation will be the answer, but privatisation will stand on its own, quite apart from any particular problem that we have at the moment. We must get that problem off and it can only be done by negotiation between the management and the people who work in it. After all, the people who work in it, they will not want to be without their wages and salaries very much longer!
Interviewer
Still on the domestic front, there has been a lot of sniping this week from backbenchers about Lord Young and Nicholas Ridley, talk that they might be leaving the Cabinet …
Prime Minister
I am not listening to any sniping. I have not made up my mind about a reshuffle and when I do have something to say, I shall say it and I am not interested in sniping. What I am really interested in is carrying forward constructive policies as I have done for the last ten years, which has profited the United Kingdom immensely in prosperity, in quality of life, in social services and in her standing abroad, and that is the way I shall go ahead. [end p7]
Interviewer
So no immediate reshuffle?
Prime Minister
If I have anything to say about a reshuffle, I shall say it when I am ready to say it and not before.