MT
In a partnership you each have your say, you don't just have to accept something which comes down as proposals for legislation. You argue about it and you fight your corner and you go ahead. Uh, if it's a unanimous … something which requires unanimous decision, as the important things do, then you have to find some area of agreement or if you can't, the thing falls and if it is by majority, then you fight your corner and if they're a big enough minority, then it doesn't go ahead.
Peter Spencer, IRN
You talk of yourself as a good European but there seems to be a conflict between that and indeed your words that you're expressing now, you're talking about fighting your corner, it sounds very combative?
MT
No, do you expect me not to fight, do you really want someone, a Prime Minister of Britain who doesn't fight Britain's corner although Germany fights Germany's corner, France fights France's corner, Spain fights Spain's corner? Good heavens, what sort of Europe do you think it is if we don't argue vigorously? Of course we do. If you want a Prime Minister who's a soft touch you've got the wrong one.
Peter Spencer, IRN
Some would say though far from being simply not a Prime Minister with a soft touch, you're actually the leader of the awkward squad?
MT
Ah, it's not a bad thing sometimes when you get things done that way. Just look at our record of getting things done which no other Conservative or Labour government has managed to get done in Europe. It is quite outstanding.
Peter Spencer, Irn
Do you not accept though to some extent, though that because you're now a member of a larger organization and enjoy its benefits that there has to be some sharing of power and responsibility?
MT
Yes, uh … we've started the … the … Single … the Single European Act because, having a very large Common Market, was right up front in the EEC treaty and one of the things which we started, and we were president first when that happened, and we did the first 45 directives. That's pretty practical.
Peter Spencer, IRN
So you're saying that you have a pretty good record, but nonetheless is there not still a confusion for the voters that in spite of your protestations, Ted Heath, Michael Heseltine [end p1] and various other senior Tories have put a very different perspective on Europe and questioned your commitment?
MT
I am not talking in great big rhetorical terms, I'm talking of the practical steps we've taken, the practical things we've done and when it comes to tying us up in bureaucracy like that silly thing the other day, yes it was a majority, yes we lost, but my goodness me and we were absolutely right to fight because the importance is not that particular thing but the extent to which some of the Commission proposals go when it's not necessary in any way, and indeed I think it's a retrograde step when they act with more authoritarianism than a federal government would which had separate European states.
Peter Spencer, IRN
So you wouldn't accept Labour's strictures that you're a semi-detached member of Europe and that today's exercise is very much of papering over the cracks within the Tory Party?
MT
My goodness me. If you tried to look at Labour you really can't get two people saying the same thing. Some of them are very, very much against membership. Some of them think it's much more socialist than ever it was and they're very much for it. But it's a very, very disparate view that they have, very disparate indeed.
Peter Spencer, IRN
But is that not the same also at present in the Tory Party?
MT
No, when it comes to the practical steps forward, I think you'll find that we are in agreement.