MT
Not at all. You don't have to take anything that Europe puts up without having a look and seeing if it's in Britain's interest. All our history has been in connection with Europe, as you know. So much of what we have done has been absolutely at the heart of human rights and the rule of law, of freedom under a rule of law. And, of course, it was from this country that the liberation of Europe after … in the last war was mounted.
Interviewer
Well, Prime Minister, if I could just mention some other measures from Europe: the Workers' Charter, the health warning on cigarettes, the Lingua language programme for schools, the European Monetary System, abolition of frontier controls, and more items. All European initiatives. To some degree or another, you have opposed them all.
MT
[end p1] Yes, but some of them are just not necessary to do from a centralised authority in any way. Even in the United States, you'll find that many industrial relations matters, where they have a federal government, are left to the separate states to deal with. What you've got now is an attempt on the part of the Commission, probably quite naturally, to take extra powers onto itself. Most … most new organisations do that. We have to reject them and fight Britain's corner. We have freed up our economy. It's done very well for our people. We have an unemployment rate below European average. We have a higher proportion of our people of working age in work than France or Germany. We're not going to give up those things. It's absolutely ridiculous that you should have twelve ministers sitting down together, not merely to say there should be a health warning on cigarettes, but actually to draft it. Now that's ridiculous. That's bureaucracy run mad. You do those things together which you need to do together, but you don't take as many powers to the centre as you can. That would be quite wrong.
Interviewer
If they do it on the things that matter, will you take us out of the Community?
MT
The things which matter we have unanimous voting upon and, if that fails, you have what is known as a Luxembourg Compromise, which was invented, of course you'll remember, by General de Gaulle, so it's very European.
Interviewer
So the answer's “No” ?
MT
No, we're part of the European Community, but of course we fight our corner. Would you have it that we were a soggy soft touch? Of course you wouldn't. And you wouldn't have me here if you were.
Interviewer
Now, Mrs Thatcher, I must ask you. Your own party is not unanimous about this. You have a former Prime Minister, Mr Heath, who is going to spend the next two weeks opposing your views on Europe …
MT
One moment! What's the …
Interviewer
And a former minister, Michael Heseltine. You have your Chancellor who you had to phone and apologise to at the end of last week …
MT
No, I did not apologise.
Interviewer
And you have a Foreign Secretary who does not follow you. [end p2]
MT
The … I'm sorry. The … the, the … the policy the Nigel LawsonChancellor follows is the policy of the Government, and we're all in it together.
Interviewer
No divisions between you?
MT
The policy we follow is the policy of the Government. And if we take credit together for the great things which have been done, for the highest standard of living we've ever known, for the highest number of jobs we've ever known, then we take blame as a Government for the things which have gone wrong.
Interviewer
To quote a former statesman—Edward Heath, your predecessor—you are talking “absolute rubbish” .
MT
About … about cigarette packets?
Interviewer
About your general attitude to Europe and the “Socialist state” .
MT
Then I disagree with Edward Heathhim. Perhaps he will go and look at my Bruges speech, in which you will find all of the larger things of Europe, with economic liberty. The whole Community of Europe was designed to have economic liberty to support political liberty. Ted has his own views, He's fought me for a very long time. Of course he does. But the views which I hold are views of European idealism of the larger vision.
Interviewer
Prime Minister, these are lofty ideals and no one would dispute that, but we're talking here about political guerrilla warfare …
MT
No, we're not. No, we're not.
Interviewer
You have two weeks coming up of your fellow politicians contradicting you.
MT
Come down to earth. Come down to earth. Look at what we have done. We had to found a Common Fisheries Policy, not previous Conservative or Labour Governments. They left it to us. It was too difficult for them. We had to get sanity into the European budget and a fair deal for Britain, not previous Conservative Governments or previous Labour Governments, a Thatcher Government. We had to [end p3] get sanity into the Common Agricultural Policy, not previous Conservative Governments, nor previous Labour Governments, this one. We have a higher standard of living than we've ever had before. We have restored Britain's reputation in the world by fighting Britain's corner and by restoring our economy. That's not a bad record—for the first ten years.