Interviewer
(Question not on tape)
Prime Minister
It is not surprising. One should be very excited about what is happening, particularly when you think you had the Prague Spring and it was snuffed out; you had the Hungarian Uprising, that was snuffed out; there had been uprisings in Poland and they were all put down - now they are not. The movement really is beginning to have some hope which it has never had before so of course we are excited but please do not let euphoria go on. Euphoria is a bad master. You must be very realistic and very practical about how to translate these tremendous emotional feelings into practical democracy backed up by economic reform. That is the difficult part. The easy thing is the demonstrations.
Interviewer
But the political question here, of course, is whether you translate those actions into serious cuts in defence spending. Should we? [end p1]
Prime Minister
I did not think that Mr. Cheney was asking for serious cuts in defence spending or immediately. He was thinking about it starting in 1991&slash;1992 and also will have been thinking about the substantial reductions which we are hoping to negotiate by agreement in conventional weapons, some in chemical and in START. I do not think that he will ever put defence in jeopardy and I am quite certain President Bush will not.
When you have got changes of this magnitude, big change must take place against a background of security: security for the West in NATO and security for the Eastern countries in the Warsaw Pact, and that is why most of us say - I think indeed all the politicians that I know say - that you must keep your NATO structure intact and your Warsaw Pact structure intact so that people are not fearful that those are going to break down and if they have got the security background, they can concentrate on bringing about democracy across Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union.
Interviewer
Prime Minister, when folks see the Berlin Wall, see the cracks there, see Mr. Gorbachev come across as if the military threat to the United States and the West is reduced, how do you as a political leader, how does President Bush as a political leader, go out to the public and keep on demanding these $250 million plus defence budgets? [end p2]
Prime Minister
No difficulty at all.
Interviewer
None?
Prime Minister
We did not do it between the wars. Had we had a NATO across Europe from 1930 onwards, strong in defence of liberty, strong in its alliances, staunch and steadfast, the Second World War would never have come about.
It is keeping a strong defence, keeping sure alliances, that keeps your liberty and justice safe.
Interviewer
I sense from you in that an attitude that says: “Do not let the guard down just yet!”
Prime Minister
You never do if you really value liberty and justice. You never know what is going to happen. Look! We are talking about things totally unexpected. You could get reverses totally unexpected, not necessarily there but elsewhere - you saw them in China. You never let your guard down. You keep your defence strong. If you are able to do it at a lower level of weapons, that is very good and that is what we are negotiating but a lower level of weapons means they must be modernised and up-to-date. [end p3]
Interviewer
There are those who have said that with the Wall cracking as it is, it is time to think about the question of German reunification and yet you seem to have the voice that says: “Wait a minute!” I believe the quote attributed to you is: “Wait! Let us take this step by step!”
Are you against German reunification?
Prime Minister
I do not think the question arises yet.
The most important thing is to get democracy entrenched with the rule of law and the back-up in each of those countries so that it is irreversible. When you have got that, when they have got used to it, when they have got used to exercising all the responsibilities that democracy brings, the fact is that then and only then will you have a new world. Then all kinds of things may become possible because you are all democracies. I think if you start in fact to deal with borders now, you will be in very great difficulty right across Central Europe where there are many minorities living in many other countries. Keep your borders as they are!
Really, in the Helsinki Agreement we agreed that we would not violate one another's borders and we all signed that - thirty-four states - in 1975. We could change them peacefully by agreement. Things will be much better, easier and a new world and a new security when democracy is everywhere. That is a big task; not a task for euphoria or morning commentary, but a steady task to be carried out day by day, week by week, year by year. [end p4]
Interviewer
Move on to Malta if we can!
There are those who say the last time these two Presidents or President Gorbachev and at that time President Bush [sic] sat down for just a “Let us put our feet up!” meeting, Mr. Gorbachev came with the Rekjavik surprise. President Bush has been doing a lot of homework trying to calculate what might be Mr. Gorbachev's surprise. Do you see one?
Prime Minister
I do not think that Mr. Gorbachev on this occasion will want to come with major surprises. After all, look at the events which have happened. The events themselves have been surprising and I think that he will want to work towards much greater security and to try to bring about the economic reform. But if he does come with any surprise, the United States is very well able to cope with that. Any surprise that you are presented with, you take it away and you consider it carefully, very carefully ......
Interviewer
You do not answer it right there?
Prime Minister
… before you reply, but you make certain of your security because it is keeping our security strong and not being intimidated. Had we faltered on that, we should not have seen the changes we are seeing now. [end p5]
Interviewer
Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, good to check in with you!
Prime Minister
Thank you very much!