Interviewer
Prime Minister, the West Germans are saying that firm roots have been put down at this Summit which will lead to the realisation of the Delors Plan. Do you believe that as a result of this Summit, economic and monetary union, as foreseen in the Delors programme, is significantly closer?
Prime Minister
No, I do not. We have agreed to Stage 1 of the Delors Programme. But in any case we had to do several of those things. We had the Internal Market, for example, we had to do that. We had several other things like better competition policy, we are pledged to that in any event.
What we have not agreed to is what happens after Stage 1 and that is what we have to consider very closely and we do not quite know what that will be. The Delors Report will be one basis for considering what happens next, but I hope there will be many others. [end p1]
Interviewer
Do you believe that you have killed off stages 2 and 3 of the Delors Report?
Prime Minister
No, we have not killed it off but I think that when people look at it more closely, there will be many countries who find that they cannot implement some of the things that it requires because it takes away far too much national power to put it to a new strange body which has no accountability to the public at all.
Interviewer
You have put your name to a document today which for the first time refers to an intergovernmental conference, preparing the way for a Treaty amendment. Is it not now going to be inexorable that that process will unfold towards revising the Treaty as part of economic and monetary union?
Prime Minister
It is not inexorable because that is in the Communique. The fact is that you can call an intergovernmental conference by simple majority of the Member nations so you could get 7 - 5 and you call an intergovernmental conference. [end p2]
Now most of the countries round that table would have no difficulty in calling an intergovernmental conference, so we have not given away anything and it has not in fact been convened. The time will come when if they want to go their way they will apply to have one convened.
I personally think that if you are calling intergovernmental conferences too often it does not give stability, it gives uncertainty. If you have got a Treaty that you are constantly revising people do not quite know where they are and if they say: “Well, we have one set of powers now and then they are changing”, it is really rather like having an earthquake under your feet.
Many of them will want to call one but we have not called one yet.
Interviewer
You said that the Delors Report is only one basis for possible monetary union, he has his vision of the future, do you have a vision of what you want for economic and monetary union?
Prime Minister
I do not believe in transferring as many national sovereign powers to a group of some twelve men who are to decide, for example, what your budget deficits will be, who are to decide your economic policy, who are to decide your monetary policy and give your Parliament no say at all. [end p3]
I hope that there will be more countries, in addition to ours, who thoroughly object to that. The essence of our Parliament right from its beginning, is that it has control over the Executive on finance. And the thought that the British Parliament might give that up to a group of twelve people who are not democratically accountable at all, I just do not think it is on.
Interviewer
Prime Minister, how do you react to the attack on you on French Radio this morning by President Mitterrand who described you as being a brake on European unity?
Prime Minister
Well, it is absolutely absurd is it not? We in Britain have freedom of capital movement, we have no foreign exchange controls, we are right in the forefront of trying to free up things on the Single Market.
France does not have freedom of capital movement, she still has foreign exchange controls. She has been able to maintain her currency in the European Exchange Rate Mechanism by having foreign exchange controls and we are all wondering and saying: “Well, if you are so keen on this, why do you not abolish them all?” [end p4]
Interviewer
On the question of the Exchange Rate Mechanism and the possibility of the pound eventually coming in, you have listed several conditions here in Madrid, for example inflation coming down, the completion of the Single Market. Are you able to give your European partners any kind of assurance that within a reasonable period, three or four years say, Britain will come in?
Prime Minister
Apart from getting inflation down, which is very much our problem, a lot depends upon them. When are they going to abolish foreign exchange controls, when are they going to go much faster than now on completing the Single Market, when are they going to agree to drop some of the subsidies which is a feature of certain European industries? So a lot depends on them.
Far from being a brake on a freer Europe, we actually are the people who are driving it ahead as fast as we possibly can, so much depends on them.
Interviewer
Have you conceded more at this Summit than you would have wished because of the fact that the Conservative Party was defeated in the European elections? [end p5]
Prime Minister
No, I do not think we have conceded anything at this Summit. We have made it clear that we agree with Stage 1 of the Delors Report, that there is no undertaking about Stage 2 or Stage 3, or when they will occur, that we do not accept that Report as the only basis for the future …
Interviewer
But it does refer to a step-by step process?
Prime Minister
Indeed, of course, a step-by-step process without having a Delors Report. Most good things which are done through voluntary cooperation, very deep consideration before deciding what to do, are a step-by-step process and they are very much better than people who are trying to force the pace and force us into a direction in which we do not wish to go.
Interviewer
One final point, last week, M. Delors made plain that the Social Charter did not mean Brussels imposing laws on individual Member States regarding the social dimension. Why, therefore, were you not able to go on with a wider commitment to the Social Charter? [end p6]
Prime Minister
Because the Social Charter says: “This shall be used as the basis for making legally binding Directives”. So that does not accord with what M. Delors said. It is not a mere declaration, they take that and will turn it into thirty, forty, fifty legally binding Directives, some of which can be reached by majority.
So yes we said that we could not possibly agree to that.