Interviewer
Prime Minister, the French and the Commission, if you go to their briefings, say that what has happened here is fundamental acceptance of the whole principle of a stage-by-stage agreement to move towards EMU.
Prime Minister
The fundamental principle of working for the progressive realisation of economic and monetary union goes as far back as 1972, before we entered the Community, so it was there right from the beginning. It has never been defined, there are many different definitions but they have in the Delors Report taken only one definition and frankly that is not good enough.
Interviewer
Do you have your own definition? [end p1]
Prime Minister
No, but I did say that we simply must have more routes, more objectives and more routes defined so that we can choose between them because I think that the model which Mr Delors has got arrogates far more power from nation states to a central body of something like twelve bankers who are not publicly accountable to anyone, takes away the power of nation states and takes away the power which is at the heart of Parliamentary democracy, power over the budget, power over the economy, so that other people can instruct you as to what to do. That will not suit the British Parliament.
Interviewer
But is not the long-term purpose of the Community anyway to take away powers from the nation states, that is surely what we have signed up to.
Prime Minister
No, not necessarily. There are some things which in pooling sovereignty you discuss together, as you do on the Common Agricultural Policy. The Ministers meet regularly, the Foreign Ministers meet regularly, the Finance Ministers meet regularly, the Employment Ministers meet regularly, by common discussion to try to agree a way forward. That is more a pooling of sovereignty by agreement, not having it taken away. [end p2]
Interviewer
But do you, to go back to that question, do you actually have a long-term vision of what the Community ought to be or is it simply in your view going to continue as it is at the moment?
Prime Minister
I think that we could do a very great more through voluntary cooperation. After all we do that in the Economic Summit in what are called the G7 nations, they voluntarily cooperate on monetary policy, they voluntarily cooperate on economic policy because those policies are the right policies and so gradually you get a convergence in that way.
Interviewer
Privately some of your critics are talking about you as being simply nationalistic.
Prime Minister
And what is wrong with that? De Gaulle was very nationalistic, so is France. Why are so many of us going to France for the celebration of Bastille Day, because France is nationalistic, so is Spain, so are the Netherlands, they are proud of their country. That does not stop you from working together gladly on things which you do better together, but not being forced. [end p3]
Interviewer
You have made here some quite important concessions on Britain's entering the European Monetary System. Have you done that in response to the pressure of your own Back Benchers, of some of your own Cabinet Ministers at home?
Prime Minister
No, instead of just saying that we will enter when the time is right, we have set out some of the conditions which would need to be fulfilled before the time could be right. Those are conditions which they ought to be fulfilling, free movement of capital, abolition of the Exchange Rate, full Internal Market implemented, and getting rid of some of the subsidies which other countries have.
They ought to be doing those in any event. What we have done now is to define the conditions and of course point out that before we could contemplate entering we must get our own inflation down.
So it is going from we shall join when the time is right to defining the conditions when we could consider joining.
Interviewer
But what about the critics in your own Party, the people who said that we were in danger of missing yet another stage on the European journey? [end p4]
Prime Minister
I think we have all agreed, everyone, that we could not possibly join now. We have to get inflation down first and some of the others you know who are in the Exchange Rate Mechanism have managed to maintain their position, the position of their currency in relation to the Deutschemark, because they have had foreign exchange controls. It is much easier to do that way. When you have got rid of your foreign exchange controls you have to do it without that, then one wonders what will happen. They have to try it yet.
Interviewer
Do you think we are likely to see a single European currency, a single Central Bank while you are Prime Minister?
Prime Minister
No, I do not, I do not think either are necessary in any way.
Interviewer
But that is nevertheless part of the Delors Report which other countries believe we have agreed to here today?
Prime Minister
No, we have not, we have not accepted Stage 2 or Stage 3. We have accepted the Delors Report as a basis, a basis, one basis, for further work. [end p5]
Prime Minister
I think when people look at Stage 2 and Stage 3 they will find in it much that they could not possibly accept.
Interviewer
But the others do seem to think that there is a process that we have now begun towards something like that.
Prime Minister
There has always been a steady step-by-step process towards working more closely together, we have been doing that ever since we have been a member.
Interviewer
The European elections were a defeat for you essentially, were they not? Did you feel here that people regarded you as now being no longer invincible, as possibly being not the next Prime Minister of Great Britain?
Prime Minister
Not in any way, not in any way. We only had 36 percent of the vote out, some of them had considerable defeats for the sitting government on a very much larger percentage of the vote out. No I did not notice any change whatsoever, either in their demeanour or mine. [end p6]
Interviewer
Some people said they thought you were being a little bit gentler this time because you had been defeated in the Euro-elections?
Prime Minister
No, not in any way. We were still as steady and as dogged in putting our arguments and after all do not forget it was our view that prevailed, it is only Stage 1 of the Delors Report which has been accepted and further work to be done, including other versions of how to get to monetary and economic union.
Interviewer
And we will get there one day?
Prime Minister
We shall get to a definition of it. Whether we shall get to the Delors definition I think is not the same.
Interviewer
That sounds like saying no. [end p7]
Prime Minister
No it does not say no, it says that there are other definitions and you simply must not have the Jacques DelorsChairman of your Commission putting in one report with one definition with one way and accepting that. We should be failing in our duty if we did.