Q
Mrs Thatcher, You say that you are running neck and neck with the Labour Party in the opinion polls but whatever the case, at the moment it appears that you are not ahead. Now, I wonder why that is. Whether you think it is perhaps attributed to the state of the economy in Europe or your reported differences with Mr Lawson?
PM
The critical thing in the Euro election is the proportion of the supporters that you get out to vote and far more of ours now are becoming aware of the need to vote in the last week as usually happens and that's what we're finding and our appeal to them is “All turn out and vote”. It is the proportion of your supporters that come out, and I wish I could say that there will be 70 or 80 per cent turn out to vote, but I doubt if there will.
Q
But you do accept that some of your supporters, certainly in the past few days, must have been concerned about the state of the economy and about the reported differences of opinion between you and Mr Lawson.
PM
Well, just let's have a look at the state of the economy. We have the highest standard of living in this country that we've ever known, the highest standard of consumer goods, we have the highest standard of social services. We also have a record investment in manufacturing industry, we also have record investment in business as a whole. So that argues very well for the future. One particular problem at the moment is people borrowing too much. That will have to put up interest rates which will cut down employment and also that will have the same effect on the balance of payments; that is a problem and our overriding priority is to get the rate of inflation down. But just look at the general state of the economy, we have created more jobs in this country since 1983 than any other country in Europe, the standard of living is greater and how you can all ignore that is to me a mystery. [end p1]
Q
I am not ignoring it but I am bearing in mind that the interest rate is very high at the moment with the added prospect of that it might have to rise again on Friday. I am sure you will be the first to acknowledge that that's going to mean considerable - -
PM
The overriding ....... our overriding aim, as the Nigel LawsonChancellor said in his most excellent speech in the full economic debate in the House of Commons, is to get down inflation. That will remain our overriding aim and we shall not be distracted from it.
Q
To what extent do you think your popularity at the moment, and perhaps the lack of it, has also been affected by the apparent divisions over Europe between you and Mr Heath?
PM
We are absolutely fully behind the very detailed manifesto that we have, more detailed than any other party, full of practical, constructive steps forward .......
Q
But .......
PM
And if we don't get the publicity, yes, fully behind that manifesto, because that is the way ahead for the next five years. Not talking about the dim and distant future, we are fully behind that manifesto for the next five years and what Mr Heath is saying is the same as I am, come out for a strong Britain and a strong Europe. Come out and vote Conservative. He took us into Europe and it's the Government I've had the privilege of leading that has made a very great success of it both for Britain and for Europe.
Q
But he's also, Mrs Thatcher, and I use the word very carefully, described that … some of your policies on Europe as hypocritical and patronising, surely that must have damaged .......? [end p2]
PM
Edward HeathTed and I are absolutely behind the present manifesto for the next five years. That is what this election is about. Ted is campaigning for as many people to come out and vote Conservative as possible, so am I, so are the entire Government. It matters, it is the next five years we're talking about. All the manifesto is there, and we're going to .......
Q
What is your response to the likes of Mr Heath and Mr Kinnock who often say that you are over duly [sic] concerned about the threat that Europe poses to Britain's sovereignty and independence?
PM
Because although I am fully behind the single market and helped to pass the Single European Act we want to get barriers to trade down. There are some people who are using that in Europe as a means of putting on all sorts of unnecessary bureaucratic restrictions which would add tremendous cost burdens to industry. That would be the very worst kind of Social Charter, it wouldn't create jobs, it would extinguish them here and take them to places like South East Asia.
Q
But what about …
PM
Our task is to get barriers down, not to add to them. We have our own Social Charter.
Q
But would the Social Charter be really that awful? Isn't it just possible that common legislation on industrial relations might not just benefit our people but our country as a whole?
PM
Well, it is not for Europe to do to do legislation on industrial relations without an absolutely unanimous vote. Not the ....... on taxation without a unanimous vote. Education is not within the competence of the European Community, and what you will find is some people in the European Community ....... in the [end p3] Commission are in fact trying to extend the competence of the Commission. In order to have a common market and free movement of trade and getting the barriers down you don't need to govern the every activity of a country. We need to get down the barriers to trade. And you need to follow the kind of policy that we have. Why do you think that so many countries choose to come to Britain for their investment in Europe? Because they know that they will do well in this country, we've got rid of a lot of these regulations, you've got to have a framework of regulations, certainly, within which we have to work, we have concentrated not on trying people up but on removing the restraints and that has had tremendous benefit to our people. Thousands of jobs have been created to the standard of living, and they are coming here. Tie them up in enormous cost burdens and they won't come here, they will go to South East Asia.
Q
One final question, Mrs Thatcher, I think that, again according to the opinion poll finding, it is quite true that once again the British people on Thursday will demonstrate what the rest of Europe sees as total apathy in the European elections. Is it not possible that despite your enthusiasm and that which is talked about by Mr Heath, the British public really could not care less about being a member of Europe?
PM
I don't think that is true. I think it might have been true some time ago although there was a referendum as you know, and I think they realise that our history, in way, has been bound up with Europe, so our economic future is more and more bound up in Europe, and our prosperity, and when we join together to do the things we can do better together than separately, we are more powerful, we are more powerful to negotiate with the United States, with Japan ....... And we do want it both ways and we can have it both ways, so can every other country. We do the things ourselves which are properly left to national governments and we voluntarily join together and we have Treaties which join together and trade, and agriculture and certain things to get a common market. [end p4]
When we were voluntarily closer together, this is the best way for each country and for the future of Europe as a whole. It's a good way and people know that we have this two sides to our policy which actually blend together. A strong Britain and a strong Europe. And we argue, we argue it out, we have arguments. And we've done well for Britain and we've done well for Europe.
Q
Mrs Thatcher, thank you very much indeed.