PRIME MINISTER
Engagements
Q1. Mr. Sims
To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 24 May.
The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)
This morning I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House I shall be having further meetings later today. This evening I hope to have an audience of Her Majesty The Queen.
Mr. Sims
Is my right hon. Friend aware of the degree of support in the country for the sentiments that she expressed in her speech to the Church of Scotland? Would she care to take this opportunity to reassert that one of the principles of the Christian ethic is personal and individual responsibility, and that some of the other principles, such as care, compassion and tolerance, can be, and are, shared by people of all political parties—including the party to which she and I are proud to belong?
The Prime Minister
I am most grateful to my hon. Friend for his kind words. It was, of course, an expression of personal beliefs and views—[Interruption.] On that occasion I agreed with what my hon. Friend said. As I pointed out at the time, there may be others who disagree, but it is a mark of Christian manners and courtesy to do so in a very mannerly way.
Mr. Kinnock
Will the Prime Minister now unfreeze child benefit and restore the 70p cuts that she has made in the past two years?
[column 192]The Prime Minister
Child benefit is reviewed each year. This year we chose to give a great deal more to children in families who had low earnings, so that we helped those who needed it most.
Mr. Kinnock
It did not make up for the child benefit cuts. When I heard the Prime Minister on Saturday saying that she considered that children were “a precious trust” , I wondered whether she meant it in practice. Now I know that she does not. “By their fruits ye shall know them.”
The Prime Minister
Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman will do me the courtesy of reading the speech. I do not believe—and it is a personal view—that one discharges all one's duties by casting them off on to the state.
Mr. Kinnock
The Prime Minister has cut child benefit. She has stopped free school meals. She has ended single payments. Can she tell us which passage of the Bible inspired her to do all that? Could it have been Matthew 27:24,
“Pilate … took water, and washed his hands”
The Prime Minister
I believe that the right hon. Gentleman debases everything—[Interruption.]—that he and I both probably believe in if we try to exchange quotations across the Chamber. I made it perfectly clear in that speech that we simply cannot delegate the exercise of mercy and generosity to others, and that therefore there is a very important place both for help through the state—which we operate—and personal help and personal responsibility. The right hon. Gentleman asked me personally. Perhaps he will kindly look at the amount which I have voluntarily forgone from my salary over the past nine years. [Interruption.]
Mr. Key
May I congratulate my right hon. Friend on the international lead that she has given in arranging for the historic meeting between British and Soviet scientists at the chemical defence establishment at Porton Down in my constituency? Will she join me in praising the work of the scientific and industrial civil servants, without whose dedication and loyalty our role in those talks would not be so important?
The Prime Minister
Yes, I will gladly do that. As my hon. Friend is aware, there were visits from this country and from our allies to the Soviet Union with regard to chemical weapons. We have no chemical weapons in this country. We gave them up a very long time ago, and this is a return visit under the agreement that we have to inspect each other's premises.
Dr. Owen
In view of the importance of a revising second Chamber for this Parliament, does the Prime Minister accept that it is now time to look at the proposals of Lord Home in 1978 for an elected and nominated second Chamber? The reform of the other place is now right. If we are to have a sensible revisory process, it requires a change in the voting membership of the other place.
The Prime Minister
As the right hon. Gentleman will be aware, the community charge Bill for Scotland went through their Lordships' House completely, and was revised in their Lordships' House, before the election. We put in our manifesto plans that went into far greater detail because a similar Bill had already been through their [column 193]Lordships' House. I believe that there is no such difficulty as the right hon. Gentleman suggests. I believe that yesterday we won on the argument—[Interruption.]
Mr. Speaker
Order. It takes up a great deal of time to have so much noise.
The Prime Minister
During the debate 75 Cross Benchers were present and voting; 43 Cross Benchers supported the Government and 32 voted with the Labour Opposition.
Mr. Colin Shepherd
Does my right hon. Friend agree that the SAS regiment based in Herefordshire has served this country with quiet distinction, not least for the past 13 years, during which it has been deployed in Northern Ireland? Does she agree that that success has been due largely to the anonymity with which it has worked? Does she not agree, therefore, that it is highly irresponsible for hon. Members to seek to name names, not least because of the jeopardy in which soldiers' families would be placed?
The Prime Minister
Yes, I join my hon. Friend in paying warm tribute to the work of the SAS. I agree with him that for it to continue to protect our security it must not be discussed in detail in this House or anywhere else.
Q2. Mr. Tom Clarke
To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 24 May.
The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Clarke
Has the Prime Minister had time to glimpse at “Just Sharing” , one of the books that was presented to her by the Church of Scotland on Saturday? Does she agree with its conclusion that the reality of one and a half million men, women and children who live on the borders of poverty represents a sick society in Scotland? In view of the charity which the Church demonstrated by listening to the right hon. Lady's speech, will she respond by showing some humility and offering a real challenge to poverty, if only because pious words do not always represent Christian values, but positive policies and a caring approach in a meaningful sense often do?
The Prime Minister
I was glad to receive the pamphlet “Just Sharing” . It gives me an opportunity to point out that because of the Government's policies there is far more available for sharing among those who need it.
Mr. David Evans
In condemning the violence at Wembley at last Saturday's match between England and Scotland, does my right hon. Friend agree that it is time the Football League and the Football Association stopped pussyfooting on the members only issue and copied the scheme at Luton where, during two full seasons and 80 matches, there was not one single arrest inside or outside the ground?
The Prime Minister
Once again we had violence and hooliganism, which disfigures football and will make it much more difficult to get back to playing in Europe. I agree with my hon. Friend that the scheme he introduced to Luton, which was members only and no away spectators, is excellent and has brought families back to football, to their great joy. I wish that more would follow his excellent example.
Q3. Mr. Roy Hughes
To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 24 May.
[column 194]The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Hughes
Does the Prime Minister recall that in her speech to the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland at the weekend she attempted to reconcile the creed of greed with morality? In that speech she also pointed out that “each one counts.” Can she confirm that yesterday that was the moral imperative uppermost in her mind when she whipped in hundreds of backwoodsmen in the House of Lords to get her over her troubles on the poll tax?
The Prime Minister
The hon. Gentleman will not be surprised to hear that I do not agree with him about the premise which underlines his question. [Interruption.] I do not believe that people, such as nurses and doctors, are exercising the creed of greed when they ask for more.
Mr. Lawrence
Does not the standing ovation which the Royal College of Nursing gave to our right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Social Services show that the angels believe the NHS is safe in her hands?
The Prime Minister
Yes, Sir. Again, because of the policies carried out by this Government, there is more money to distribute for social services and far more money to distribute to the Health Service. The reception that John Mooremy right hon. Friend had yesterday was well deserved.
Q4. Mr. Allan Roberts
To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 24 May.
The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Roberts
Since 1979, during the nine years that the Prime Minister has been in power, homelessness has doubled in Britain. Can she tell us why?
The Prime Minister
If the hon. Gentleman reads the speech of my right hon. Friend Nicholas Ridleythe Secretary of State for the Environment he will find an explanation. First, the population of working age is about 1⅓ million more than it was 10 years ago. Secondly, unfortunately, as my right hon. Friend set out in his speech, the number of broken marriages and single parents greatly increases the need for housing. Therefore, more houses are having to be provided for approximately the same number of people.
Mr. Bill Walker
Is my right hon. Friend aware that many people in Scotland are delighted to see her coming to the Church of Scotland General Assembly because it is a pleasant change to have a leader who is a practising Christian, who believes in what she is doing and who clearly demonstrates this every day of the week, not least by the courage with which she carries out her duties?
The Prime Minister
I am grateful to my hon. Friend. The Opposition would not have attacked what I said so vigorously if it had not been as well received as it was.
Mr. Steel
Does the Prime Minister remember that when I asked her last month about the Church of Scotland report on poverty in Scotland, showing that 31 per cent. of the population were living at or near the margins of poverty, she said she had not seen the report? Does she recognise that that was the report handed to her by the Moderator at the end of her interesting speech, and does she now accept that the Government have a direct and unavoidable duty to do something about it?
[column 195]The Prime Minister
As I have indicated many times in the past few minutes, because of the policies of this Government there is more money available to share, there are more houses, there is a better Health Service and there are better salaries; in fact, life is better off all round, precisely because of our policies.
Mr. Allason
Given the conviction yesterday of Mr. Martin Chilvers, will my right hon. Friend tell the House when the recommendations of the Security Commission [column 196]report—published three years ago—to introduce polygraph testing into GCHQ and other establishments will be implemented?
The Prime Minister
As my right hon. Friend indicated in a reply, which I think was given some time during April, and as my hon. Friend is aware, we have asked for a scientific assessment of the phase I experiment on the polygraph. However, there are different views from the scientific body as to how useful that is. When the report has come in, we shall assess it and make an announcement to the House.