PRIME MINISTER
Engagements
Q1. Mr. Ray Powell
To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 19 May.
The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)
This morning I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet and had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House I shall be having further meetings later today.
Mr. Powell
Will the Prime Minister reflect on the reception that she received last Saturday at Hampden park? Does she now realise that some of her decisions are even worse than the referee's? Last Tuesday, when she replied to my hon. Friend the Member for Ealing, Southall (Mr. Bidwell), she stated that everyone in the country had enjoyed increased prosperity. Will she explain why, in 1979, my constituents in Ogmore were employed in the steel works and in the mines and were earning £150 to £240 a week, whereas many are now on the dole and have been unemployed for five years, as have 2 million others? How can she say that they are enjoying increased prosperity?
The Prime Minister
The answers to the parts of the question that I was able to hear are, first, that I very much enjoyed the game at Hampden park and the visit to the flower festival in the morning, and we had an excellent conference the night before. Secondly, everyone has participated in the increased prosperity. Average earnings are very much up, taxation is very much down, personal allowances are very much increased, social security benefits have increased enormously and so have the health services.
Mr. Stokes
Will my right hon. Friend consider whether any action can be taken against the BBC and ITV for their attitude towards the security forces in the fight against terrorism? Would any other country tolerate such behaviour, and is not their action a stab in the back for the nation?
The Prime Minister
As my hon. Friend is very well aware, if there are any complaints they should be made, not to me, but to the BBC complaints authority or to Marmaduke Husseythe chairman.
[column 1093]Mr. Kinnock
Is the Prime Minister satisfied with the effect on the pound/deutschmark rate of the interest rate—[Interruption.]
Mr. Speaker
Order. It takes up a lot of time.
Mr. Kinnock
Is the Prime Minister satisfied with the effect on the pound/deutschmark rate of the interest rate cut on Tuesday?
The Prime Minister
I made a very comprehensive statement on Tuesday. If the right hon. Gentleman wants to know the unwisdom of asking direct questions about the exchange rate, he should see what happened when certain Labour Back Benchers, who later became Front Benchers, asked such questions of—as they are now—Lord Wilson and Lord Callaghan. It was absolutely catastrophic. I have nothing to add to the statement that I made on Tuesday.
Mr. Kinnock
Now perhaps the Prime Minister will give us the answer. Is she satisfied that D 3.17 to the pound is sustainable, or unsustainable?
The Prime Minister
I have nothing further to add. I commend to the right hon. Gentleman the references that I made. He will learn a great deal from them.
Mr. William Powell
Now that we have seen yet another substantial fall in unemployment as a result of the Government's policies, will my right hon. Friend reflect on the fact that it was in March 1979 that the closure of Corby steel works was announced and 8,000 people lost their jobs in my constituency? Today, the number of people out of work and claiming benefit in Corby town has fallen below 2,000 for the first time.
The Prime Minister
I agree with my hon. Friend. Corby is an excellent example of a town undergoing the necessary reconstruction of a major industry and having the enterprise to find new jobs for the people there, and a new prosperity. I congratulate my hon. Friend.
Q2. Mr. Fisher
To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 19 May.
The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Fisher
In reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Ogmore (Mr. Powell) the Prime Minister referred to income tax being very much lower. How does she justify the fact that as a direct result of the tax loopholes and tax advantages that her Government have created, a 51-year-old man earning £1 million a year can apparently pay no income tax? How is that a fair tax system, and what will she do to close those loopholes?
The Prime Minister
Under the new tax system those at the top of the scale pay a bigger proportion of the total amount than they did previously. I commend to the hon. Gentleman the speech of the New Zealand Socialist Minister for Finance, who has now made the top rate of tax 33p in the pound. One of the reasons for that is that he believes it is good for the people at the bottom of the pile to have a higher standard of living.
[column 1094]New Zealand Butter
Q3. Mr. Teddy Taylor
To ask the Prime Minister if the next meeting of the European Council will discuss the special arrangements for the import of New Zealand butter; and if she will make a statement.
The Prime Minister
I am not aware of any plans to do so.
Mr. Taylor
Will my right hon. Friend fight hard to prevent the EEC further cutting New Zealand butter imports and depriving British housewives of freedom of choice, particularly as New Zealand has never let Britain down when we have been in trouble? Will she bear in mind the massive damage being done to New Zealand, Australia and the Third world by the Common Market spending over £200 million of taxpayers' money every week dumping butter on the world market at 6p a pound?
The Prime Minister
As my hon. Friend is aware, we have done more than any other Government to get the surpluses under control in the Common Market, in particular at the last meeting that we had, because we were very much aware of the truth of what my hon. Friend said. The surpluses affect other countries which depend to a considerable extent upon the export of agricultural products. The New Zealand butter agreement will come up again shortly for examination and we expect the Commission to make proposals. New Zealand exports far less butter to Britain than it used to do, but it is an important part of its economy and many people in this country wish to continue to be able to buy that butter, and I assume that they will be able to do so.
Mr. Rees
Will the Prime Minister recall the speed with which the New Zealanders came to our support in 1939? Will she consider visiting the airfields in Lincolnshire and the war graves all the way from El Alamein to the Austrian border and reflect on the price that New Zealanders paid while supporting us, and support the New Zealanders in the EEC?
The Prime Minister
I thought that I was doing just that in my reply, because butter exports are very much a part of the New Zealand economy. People here still wish to purchase that country's butter—and lamb—and I am very much aware that the import quotas have been reduced steadily from 165,000 tonnes in 1973 to 74,000 tonnes this year. A new agreement will be negotiated, which I hope will be satisfactory to all concerned.
Dame Elaine Kellett-Bowman
Will my right hon. Friend reflect on the fact that, although many people agree that the older generations of New Zealanders, in the first and second world wars, supported us superbly, as they did in the Falklands, the present New Zealand Government, under Labour, have reneged on their duty to contribute to the defence of the free world and the position has radically changed?
The Prime Minister
I am very much aware that our ships are not able to go to New Zealand at the moment—which I think is a great tragedy both for our Navy and for many people in New Zealand—because the New Zealand Government insists on the ships not having any nuclear weapons or on asking questions about that, and of course we cannot say whether they have because of our obligations to NATO. Nevertheless, I do not think that [column 1095]that would warrant taking it out of the New Zealand people by not doing everything that we can to see that they have a thoroughly satisfactory arrangement for the continued sale of butter to the Common Market.
Mr. Wilson
Having used the un-word “unwisdom” , and having called in aid the good example of the New Zealand Socialist Government, will the Prime Minister now give an assurance that there will be no cruise missiles on the Clyde?
The Prime Minister
I shall give the hon. Gentleman the assurance that we shall take whatever measures are necessary to keep a continued effective nuclear deterrent and to carry out our obligations to NATO.
Mr. Dykes
Will my right hon. Friend accept, though, that fairminded New Zealanders agree that the arrangement for New Zealand, which is very welcome in all parts of the House, has been a very good one for that country, but that that does not gainsay the need for New Zealand to find other markets, including the Soviet Union, because New Zealanders sell more butter there than the EEC does?
The Prime Minister
Yes, but I hope my hon. Friend will appreciate that when they have a drop in quota from 165,000 tonnes in 1973 to 74,000 tonnes this year they have had to be very active in finding other markets, particularly those in the Pacific basin.
Engagements
Q4. Mr. Livingstone
To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 19 May.
The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Livingstone
In the Prime Minister's busy day, will she find time to consider the conviction for murder of Mr. Robert McConnell, a Unionist paramilitary, and investigate who authorised the decision of the RUC to destroy its case notes rather than bring prosecutions against two members of the SAS, Sergeant Aitken and Corporal McGow, who supplied the sub-machine gun used in the murder? Will she therefore report urgently to the House on who authorises SAS operations at political and operational levels at home and abroad?
The Prime Minister
As the hon. Gentleman is aware, decisions about prosecutions are not for me. They are for the prosecuting authorities. If the hon. Gentleman has any evidence, I suggest that he puts it to those authorities, rather than give it under privilege. We do not discuss matters relating to the SAS, and no one would want us to do so unless he wished to undermine the security of this country.
Q5. Mr. Couchman
To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 19 May.
The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Couchman
Does my right hon. Friend agree that today's most heartening unemployment and employment statistics underscore our burgeoning economy? Should we [column 1096]not now be placing the greatest emphasis on training our young people in the skills that will be needed in the 21st century, the shortage of which is beginning to worry successful employers?
The Prime Minister
Yes, I agree with my hon. Friend that the figures today are very encouraging indeed. Unemployment has fallen for 21 months in succession and over the last year by about half a million. I agree with him also that we shall need more and more skilled people for the jobs that are available. I hope that everyone, including the trade unions, will support the new adult training scheme, which is intended to give skills to about 600,000 unemployed people to enable them to get the jobs that employers are ready to offer.
Mr. Battle
Will the Prime Minister explain how 200 of my constituents, who are skilled workers and who received their redundancy notices from Courtaulds last week, have participated in the new prosperity that she says is for everyone?
The Prime Minister
Yes it is difficult for anyone who suddenly faces redundancy, but most people understand that there must be a restructuring of industry. There has to be change. One cannot go on making goods for which there is no demand. The many people, from both sides of the House, who come to see me fully understand that these things have to happen and they set about trying to find companies to go to the area or people who will take up the enterprise allowance to create the jobs and work of the future.
Q6. Mr. Stanbrook
To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 19 May.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Stanbrook
Will my right hon. Friend give some thought this afternoon to the constitutional difficulty that has been exposed by the fate of the Abortion (Amendment) Bill? When the Government are apparently neutral on an important moral issue it is quite impossible for that issue to be settled by means of a private Member's Bill, however meritorious it may be and however much support it may get in this place. Is there not therefore a duty on my right hon. Friend to change her mind about this single constitutional issue? Matters of this sort ultimately depend for decision on the Government giving the opportunity for them to be settled in Government time. It will take only a few minutes one evening at the end of business to settle this one way or the other.
The Prime Minister
I would not necessarily accept that there is a constitutional difficulty of the kind that my hon. Friend describes. Many of us have had to take through private Member's Bills that started by being very controversial, and some of us handled them in very different ways. A great deal depends on that, and I do not accept that there is a constitutional difficulty just because this Bill has not got through. I think that the decision we took not to provide time for private Member's Bills was correct.