Gerry Foley, TV-AM
On the question of Gibraltar, doesn't the refusal of the Gibraltarians to operate the Airport Agreement show how powerful a veto they have and is this likely to affect your attempts to improve Anglo-Spanish relations?
Prime Minister
I would not talk of it as a veto at all, it is much deeper, much much more fundamental than that. Spain will say that Gibraltar is an emotive issue for the people of Spain. I, representing Britain, also say it is an emotive issue for the people of Britain because Gibraltar stood by us in two World Wars and but for the people of Gibraltar standing by us, it would have been more difficult to secure the future freedom for Europe. So we owe them some loyalty.
It is even more emotive for the people of Gibraltar because for them it is not only emotion, it is their whole future. So one must understand that it matters more to them than anyone else. [end p1]
Now that is much deeper than talking about it as just a veto. Our Parliament is pledged to the people of Gibraltar. When we gave them self-government, not independence but self-government, we agreed through our British Parliament that we would not change their status without the consent of the people of Gibraltar. So the way forward is only by steady, practical, increasing cooperation and that is the path we are pursuing.
Gerry Foley, TV-AM
Following your talks with Prime Minister Gonzalez on this issue do you now have a greater understanding of your respective positions and in particular how sensitive an issue it remains in Spain for the Spanish Government?
Prime Minister
No-one would expect Britain to go back on her pledges and I think everyone recognises that the way forward is through increasing cooperation. That is the path we are trying to take. I was very sad that when we have got what I regarded as a very good cooperative agreement on the use of the Airport at Gibraltar, all those people going to Gibraltar and the people going to Spain, that the people of Gibraltar have not yet implemented it. I hope that one day they will because we negotiated believing that on its own it is a good agreement for Gibraltar. [end p2]
Again, it emphasises that we are not in the business of compelling them to do things, we are in the business of persuading when we think that the cooperative agreement we have got is a good one.
Gerry Foley, TV-AM
In your Bruges speech it has been said that you are trying to make other European leaders think more clearly about what the future direction for Europe is going to be yet a lot of reaction seems to have been fairly critical and some have accused you of being a reluctant European. Are you?
Prime Minister
I think there has been reaction on two totally different levels. I think the reaction from many many people is thank goodness you have said it, that is the way we really and truly think, we are really rather proud of our country and we are quite happy to negotiate in Europe and believe that we should negotiate in Europe, that is why we joined the European Community. But we wish to retain our national pride and negotiate freely on things we do better but we do not want to replace the regulations we have got by even more complicated ones. That is not the way to freer trade and there was, and I said so at the last European Council, there was something of a tendency when they are doing these joint regulations [end p3] to get them too detailed, too bureaucratic. I said we did not get rid of a lot of regulations in Britain, we did not roll back the frontiers of the state only to have them reimposed by far too complicated regulations from the Community.
It would be very ironic, just when those who tried central regulation, like the Soviet Union, who are coming away from it, if we went further towards it. It was a very timely warning. I have reason to think that it has already been taken note of in the corridors of power which count.
Gerry Foley, TV-AM
On this issue would you regard yourself as being ahead of other European Leaders and not out of step with them?
Prime Minister
I would see myself as being very practical and very realistic. Not talking in very general theoretical terms but talking in terms of practical agreement.
If I might say so, you know it is just as worthy an objective, indeed I think a more worthy objective, to work together in friendship as sovereign nations than try to pretend that we are not sovereign nations, which we are. You will get people with you, the sovereign nations, that matters. [end p4]
Gerry Foley, TV-AM
Finally, on NATO in your press conference you accepted the principle that countries like Spain will be members of NATO but did not actually have nuclear weapons on their soil. Is that sort of approach going to make it easier for other countries to opt out, leaving Britain perhaps to shoulder the nuclear burden?
Prime Minister
There are certain numbers of us who have been willing to take nuclear weapons on our soil. France is a member of NATO but not militarily integrated. Spain is a member of NATO but not militarily integrated.
What you have to do if you join NATO is to accept the strategy of nuclear deterrence, there are some people, of which Norway is one, Denmark is another, who would not accept nuclear weapons on their soil, but it is not necessary for them to do so but they do accept and understand that it is the nuclear weapon that has kept the peace for over forty years.
I think that most of us have been able to convince our countries of that and therefore I think that the defence of Europe is sure provided we keep the nuclear deterrents and will need to strengthen conventional forces because the Soviet Union has much more modernised forces than we do.