PRIME MINISTER
Engagements
Q1. Mr. Rooker
To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 3 December.
The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)
This morning I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet and had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House, I shall be departing later today for Copenhagen to attend the European Council.
Mr. Rooker
Is the Prime Minister aware that Ministers have admitted that, on the introduction of the poll tax in 1990, slightly more households will lose than will gain, but that people living in the gainer households number 14.2 million, whereas adults living in loser households number 18.8 million in England alone? Where is the majority support for that idea? Is it in the Cabinet of gainers, or in the country of losers?
The Prime Minister
As a way of paying for local government the community charge will expand the base of payment to people who do not pay at present, but who we feel should contribute to paying for local government when they benefit enormously from the services that local government provides. We all pay income tax and VAT—[Interruption.] Most people pay income tax, but not all. All pay value added tax, and some pay rates as well, but rates have far too narrow a base.
Mr. Burns
During her busy day, will my right hon. Friend ensure that if Post Office workers go on strike the Government will immediately suspend the Post Office's monopoly in order to avoid suffering to millions of people in the build-up to Christmas, the time of good will?
The Prime Minister
If need be, we shall suspend the monopoly of the Post Office. I understand that a meeting [column 1099]is continuing this afternoon between the unions and management. I hope that they will reach a sensible settlement, because to attempt to go on strike at this time of the year would be totally and utterly cruel to business, which relies on the postal service at this time of the year, and totally heartless to all the people who make contact with one another by Christmas cards and presents.
Mr. Kinnock
Before the pay review body considers nurses' pay and the important question of regrading, and in view of the serious shortages in many of the specialties of nursing, will the Prime Minister now give an undertaking that, this time, the Government will fund the whole of the nurses' pay award and any costs that result from regrading?
The Prime Minister
The restructuring proposals are not yet ready to go to the review body. If they are agreed they will, of course, go to the review body, which did not exist under the previous Labour Government. When the proposals come from the review body, we shall consider them in the usual way and consider also the financial arrangements for any proposals that may be made. In the meantime, as the right hon. Gentleman is aware, next year in the United Kingdom there will be an increase in resources of about £1.1 billion for the National Health Service.
Mr. Kinnock
In view of the scale of anxiety and indeed of the crisis in the supply of nurses in many areas, and in view of the fact that the health authorities simply do not have the money to fund a regrading or any significant award, will the Prime Minister take the unusual step this year of giving guidance to that pay body and ensuring that when it does make an award there really is money to pay the nurses? Does she not realise that it would be both stupid and cruel to ask the health authorities to pay the nurses' award out of cuts and closures in hospitals wards?
The Prime Minister
I will prejudge neither the evidence to the review body nor what it says as a consequence. We stand very much on our record on the Health Service and the 64,000 more nurses that we now have. In the right hon. Gentleman's own constituency the increase in Health Service funding was 6 per cent. in real terms over the whole period of the last Labour Government, whereas it has risen by 20 per cent. under us. So Gwent will be very pleased.
Mr. Kinnock
Does the Prime Minister not realise yet that neither nurses nor patients are interested in the past, but are interested in the future? [Interruption.] The jeering from the Tory Benches is only further evidence of the fact that, by going private, they manifest total ignorance of what the nurses and patients feel. Will the Prime Minister tell us whether the awards are to be funded properly, or are to be paid for out of further closures?
The Prime Minister
I have already answered the right hon. Gentleman. The trouble is that he does not listen. But let me say that the last thing that nurses want is to be back under a Labour Government, to have their pay cut.
Mr. Gale
Will my right hon. Friend find time today to write to the Leader of the Opposition and invite him, on behalf of his constituents, to seek to ensure that in the forthcoming contest for the leadership of the miner's union the vote is carried out—[Interruption.]
Mr. Speaker
Order. That is not a part of the Prime Minister's responsibility.
[column 1100]Westland
Q2. Mr. Dalyell
To ask the Prime Minister if she will arrange for the early release of non-classified records in relation to the Westland affair.
The Prime Minister
No. All records relating to Westland will be dealt with in the normal way in accordance with the provisions of the Public Records Acts.
Mr. Dalyell
Did Mr. Charles Powell really fail to inform his Prime Minister of the role of the then Secretary of State for Trade and Industry?
The Prime Minister
As I have told the House and the hon. Gentleman on many occasions, I have nothing to add to the many statements and speeches that I have made in detail on this whole matter. Nothing to add.
Mr. Adley
Does my right hon. Friend think that there is any relationship between the obsessions of the hon. Member for Linlithgow (Mr. Dalyell) with the Westland affair, the Belgrano and various other matters, and the fact that, of all the Labour candidates in Scotland at the general election, he had one of the worst results?
Mr. Speaker
Order. That has nothing to do with this question, which is about the Westland affair.
Mr. John Morris
When the Prime Minister set up the inquiry, did she know that it was an official leak?
The Prime Minister
I have already said that I have nothing further to add to the detailed statements and speeches which have gone into great detail and which have been given to the House. There is nothing further to add to those statements.
Mr. Warren
Is my right hon. Friend aware that when evidence on Westland was given to the Select Committee on Trade and Industry, of which I had the honour to be Chairman at the time, there was never at any time any qualification about the standard of the information given, nor did we find any withheld?
Engagements
Q3. Mr. Beith
To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 3 December.
The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Beith
Will the Prime Minister find time today to explain her reasons for believing that, under electricity privatisation, the free market should not be allowed to decide whether a new generation of nuclear power stations would be a viable proposition?
The Prime Minister
I believe that that point has already been dealt with in extenso by the Sizewell inquiry. As well as being a viable proposition, other matters are also involved. Obviously one wants electricity power stations generated on different bases, some from coal, some from gas, some from oil and some from nuclear power. That is much the wisest course of action.
Mr. John Greenway
Does my right hon. Friend appreciate that, today, she takes with her to Copenhagen the good wishes of everyone on the Conservative Benches? It is crucial for the interests of farming communities as well as taxpayers and consumers that some sense is brought to the European Community budget.
[column 1101]The Prime Minister
I am grateful to my hon. Friend. We shall be going to Copenhagen for what will undoubtedly be a very difficult meeting, but it is vital that we address, and attempt to solve, with determination, the question of surplus agricultural products, the question of sound financial discipline and, of course, that we maintain our Fontainebleau abatement, which has served this country very well.
Answers to Questions
Q4. Mr. Allen
To ask the Prime Minister if she will take steps to seek to alter the current practice of Ministers at Question Time reading from prepared briefs.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend—the hon. Gentleman—sorry.
The answer to the hon. Gentleman's question is no.
Mr. Allen
The people who listen on the radio to Prime Minister's Question Time will not be aware that the Prime Minister does not answer questions off the cuff, but reads her answers from a prepared brief. Is that because the Prime Minister does not have the wit to answer the questions, or is it because she has no confidence in her policies?—[Interruption.]
Mr. Speaker
Order. Briefly.
Mr. Allen
Is the reason the Prime Minister does not want television cameras in this Chamber that people would see the Prime Minister and Prime Minister's Question Time for the sham that they both are?
The Prime Minister
As the hon. Gentleman has referred to broadcasting, I hope that people will also have the wit to know that one does not have a clue what will come out from the other side at all and I hope—[Interruption.] I do not know if anything of any value will come out from the other side, but just in case there should be anything of value one does take a great deal of trouble to try to provide statistics and to provide the facts. It is the facts that Opposition Members cannot stand. The reason why I do not want television is that I am afraid that people would see too much of what the other side are really like, and that would not enhance the reputation of this House.
Engagements
Q5. Mr. Stern
To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 3 December.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Stern
Will my right hon. Friend take time today to congratulate our right hon. and learned Friend the Foreign Secretary on the accord that he announced yesterday on the subject of Gibraltar? That accord does not involve any loss of sovereignty and will lead to better relationships with Spain and cheaper air fares throughout Europe.
The Prime Minister
Yes, congratulations are very much in order to my right hon. and learned Friend Sir Geoffrey Howethe Foreign Secretary on negotiating this agreement, which [column 1102]will be of great benefit to Europe in terms of cheaper air fares and air liberalisation. That accord has been agreed without any derogation from the sovereignty of Gibraltar and gives the Gibraltarians the possibility of joining that agreement if they wish to do so.
Mr. William Ross
Does the Prime Minister agree that the decision of the Government of the Irish Republic to refer extradition applications from the United Kingdom to their Attorney-General will make extradition from the Irish Republic to the United Kingdom an extremely political act? Does the Prime Minister further agree that it allows the Government of the Irish Republic to increase pressure for judicial change in the United Kingdom in exchange for such extraditions? During her pleasant flight this afternoon, will the Prime Minister reflect that such a power would not be created by the Irish Government if it was not their intention to use it?
The Prime Minister
On the last occasion that I answered from the Dispatch Box I answered a question about the extradition arrangements. The old extradition arrangements that we had were excellent and fair. Neither side looked through the warrant. They accepted the warrant and the fact that when a warrant was presented there was evidence and intention to prosecute. I believe that the arrangements now—the measures that have recently gone through the Dail in the Republic—are a step backwards, because they undo that most excellent arrangement. I made it clear that extradition will be more difficult. I see no reason why we, on our side, should ever attempt to make extradition more difficult. Indeed, my right hon. Friend Douglas Hurdthe Home Secretary has done everything possible, in concert with Europe, to make extradition easier and to ensure that the people against whom there are serious charges are extradited to the country that requires them so that they can be properly and fully tried.
Q6. Sir John Biggs-Davison
To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 3 December.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Sir John Biggs-Davison
In preparing her efforts to ensure common sense in the Common Market at Copenhagen—[Interruption.]—whatever the Opposition may think, my right hon. Friend has the support of the whole country—will she draw encouragement, not only from the backing of public opinion here, but from the support given by the West German people, as shown in a recent public opinion poll?
The Prime Minister
I am grateful for the support of my hon. Friend and of colleagues. It is vital that we tackle the issue of agricultural surpluses in the way proposed by the Commission—by stabilisers for each and every product. The worst thing that could happen would be a message from the European Council that, once again, we had run away from the issue instead of tackling it.
My right hon. and learned Friend Sir Geoffrey Howethe Foreign Secretary and I will be resolute in our approach to the Council meeting and in our performance at it.