PRIME MINISTER
Engagements
Q1. Mr. Ernie Ross
To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 19 November.
The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)
This morning I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet and had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. I later visited the scene of last night's terrible fire at King's Cross, where I met representatives of the emergency services. I also visited some of the injured at University College hospital, as well as members of the hospital staff. In addition to my duties in the House I shall be having further meetings later today.
Mr. Ross
Has the Prime Minister had time today to read the letter in The Independent from members of the St. Mary's hospital action group, who are concerned about the £3 million deficit at the Paddington and North Kensington health authority? Is she aware that health authorities all over the country are facing similar situations? In my constituency the Tayside health board is facing a substantial cut in finance this year because of an alleged overprovision under a SHARE formula of earlier years. Does she realise that deficits in spending faced by health boards are borne by patients, through ward closures and reductions in services, and that such deficits damage the morale of people in the Health Service who have to support them?
The Prime Minister
Spending on the Health Service provided by the taxpayer has gone up from £8 billion to £20.5 billion during the past eight years. That has gone up as the taxation has gone up from £11 per week per family to £29 per week per family. With regard to London, as the hon. Gentleman is aware, the resource allocation working party reviewed the distribution of resources and concluded that there should be a move towards national equality of [column 1196]access to health care. That meant that all four Thames regions, which were substantially over their targets in 1979, should receive a reduced share of the total resources. May I also remind the hon. Gentleman that, on the subject of total resources in the health services, the report of Sir Alec Merrison in 1979 said:
“We had no difficulty in believing the proposition put to us by one medical witness that ‘we can easily spend the whole of the gross national product.’”
There has to be a limited budget on all services. The budget on health has gone up enormously—over 30 per cent. in real terms.
Sir Hugh Rossi
As hundreds of my constituents use the Piccadilly and Northern lines to King's Cross each day, may I welcome the sympathy and concern that my right hon. Friend has shown towards the victims and the tribute that she paid to the marvellous emergency services? Will my right hon. Friend make sure that any inquiry that will inevitably ensue encompasses not only the immediate causes of the accident, but safety throughout Greater London's underground system, in view of the deep concern that now exists among the travelling public?
The Prime Minister
I thank my hon. Friend. I know that everyone wishes to thank all the emergency and hospital services. They were the first to thank members of the public for coming forward so readily and so quickly. Indeed, I think that there was unanimity of praise for almost everyone. Later today my right hon. Friend Paul Channonthe Secretary of State for Transport will be announcing the setting up of a public inquiry—[Interruption.] I thought that it was necessary to say that. [Interruption.]
Mr. Speaker
Order. These are very serious matters.
The Prime Minister
Thank you. Mr. Speaker. With regard to safety, investment in the Underground has been steadily rising since 1984. In 1985–86 it was £135 million, the following year it was £171 million and the next year £199 million, and £5 million per annum is spent on specific health and safety measures over and above the safety measures incorporated in other investments. Of course safety will be dealt with in the several inquiries that will take place.
Q2. Mr. Strang
To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 19 November.
The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Strang
When will the Prime Minister recognise that the figures that she comes out with about health spending take no account of the increased costs in the Health Service, which are greater than in other fields, of the increased number of elderly people in the community or of increased number of elderly people in the community or of increased technology? That is why, in my health board area, the Health Service has to cut spending this year on the hospital service by £7 million. That cut is against the background of a greater number of people needing patient care and poorer staffing ratios per patient. When will the Prime Minister recognise that, instead of encouraging the private service, she should be giving adequate resources to the Health Service?
The Prime Minister
When the hon. Gentleman's Government were in power the average family paid £11 per week to finance the Health Service. It is not Governments who pay to finance any service. This year the average family will pay £29 a week to finance the Health [column 1197]Service. Clearly, the Opposition wish to put up taxation on average families in order to provide more. Every service will have to live within a budget and, because of our rate of growth, we have been able to make increasing provision for the Health Service. As we have a record rate of growth this year—much bigger than growth in the rest of the European Community—there will be increased provision for the Health Service next year of about £800 million. That was previously announced by Nigel Lawsonmy right hon. Friend.
Q3. Mr. Patrick Thompson
To ask the Prime Minister is she will list her official engagements for Thursday 19 November.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Thompson
Will my right hon. Friend find time during her busy day to take note of the fact that the figure for those out of work in my constituency of Norwich, North has fallen by over 15 per cent. during the last 12 months? Bearing in mind that in Norwich and the surrounding area there is still a shortage of skilled manpower, will my right hon. Friend and her colleagues press on with programmes that give more emphasis to training and to incentives to work, such as those announced yesterday by the Secretary of State for Employment in his excellent statement?
The Prime Minister
I am sure that most hon. Members are delighted with the reduction in the unemployment figure, which has fallen by 445,000 over the last year. That is very welcome. I agree with my hon. Friend that the new training programme announced by Norman Fowlerthe Secretary of State for Employment is excellent and will help many more people to get jobs as more and more people in our work force will require an increasing number of skills.
Mr. Kinnock
Clearly, everybody is glad about any fall in unemployment. We have only 2 million more to go and we shall be back where the Prime Minister started in 1979. Up to 45 per cent. of Jaguar, 20 per cent. of Rolls-Royce and 15 per cent. of British Areospace have been bought by foreign interests. Now that 10 per cent. of BP has been bought by the Kuwaiti Government, will the Prime Minister tell us whether this is what she meant when she talked about encouraging wider share ownership?
The Prime Minister
As our own overseas assets, including portfolio investments, are very considerable and contribute enormous sums to our balance of payments, I would hardly think that the right hon. Gentleman would want to do without them. Moreover, as British Petroleum owns many assets and oilfields overseas, it is not surprising that there should be some international investment in BP.
Mr. Kinnock
The claims that the right hon. Lady makes for returns on overseas investments constitute less than half the deficit that she has run up on manufacturing trade. She should put the matter in perspective. If the idea of Kuwaiti Government involvement in British Petroleum is so good, will she tell us why she has not taken 10 per cent. of the shares, or must we rely on the Kuwaitis to nationalise BP again in order to give it proper security?
The Prime Minister
The right hon. Gentleman's questions are absurd. BP has great international assets, thank goodness. It is not surprising, therefore, that there should be a considerable number of overseas investors in [column 1198]BP. That is good. It seems to me that the right hon. Gentleman forgets that this is a global economy and that there is global trade. He wants to treat this country as some sort of Albania.
Mr. Kinnock
The Prime Minister knows a great deal more about the Albanian form of government than I do. I am glad that she is delighted about the strength of BP. Does it strike her as ironic that it used to be British strength in BP, and that now it belongs to everybody else? When will she stop re-flagging Britain?
The Prime Minister
It is because I am aware of the kind of government and attitude in Albania that I accuse the right hon. Gentleman of it.
Dr. Michael Clark
During her busy day, will my right hon. Friend find time to study the Central Electricity Generating Board's statement recommending that, when privatisation takes place, electricity generation should be kept together as a whole and controlled by the board? Does she further agree that when privatisation takes place there should be competition in generation and that, whatever it might cost to break up generation, the savings would be far greater than any costs?
The Prime Minister
I am aware that there will be many representations before the Bill on electricity privatisation is presented to the House in the next Session. I think that it would be best to wait and see what that Bill contains, but my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Energy is very interested in the representations that are being made.
Mr. Maclennan
Will the Prime Minister say—[Interruption.]
Mr. Speaker
Order. The hon. Gentleman has not yet asked a question.
Mr. Maclennan
Will the Prime Minister say what contingency plans she has to protect the economy in the event of the United States authorities failing to agree measures to deal with their deficit problem? In particular, will she say how much she proposes to rely on a fiscal and how much on a monetary boost?
The Prime Minister
As the hon. Gentleman should be aware, if the United States Congress and President do not agree, Gramm-Rudman takes effect on Friday. During that time a number of alternative policies can be put forward, but, in any event, there must be a reduction in the budget. It is not for us to have contingency plans, but there must be some cuts in the United States' budget.
Mr. Boswell
Will my right hon. Friend find time in her busy day to go to Wandsworth to study the benefits to the nation of the sale of 10,000 council houses by competitive tendering, thus reducing costs by 25 per cent., so that it has the lowest rates in the Metropolis?
The Prime Minister
I do not think that I can go down today, but I congratulate Wandsworth, under Conservative local government, on the excellent results that it has achieved, both in the sale of council houses, and in holding down rates.
Q4. Mr. Cox
To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 19 November.
The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
[column 1199]Mr. Cox
Does the Prime Minister recall that last winter there was very severe weather, which caused enormous problems for the elderly and disabled in being able to keep warm and to pay their electricity bills? As we again approach winter, can the Prime Minister tell the House what realistic thinking she is giving to the introduction of a proper cold weather payment that will bring benefit to people in need so that we do not have the utter confusion of the scheme earlier this year, which benefited absolutely no one? Can she tell us what thinking she is giving to that?
[column 1200]The Prime Minister
The hon. Gentleman must have forgotten that considerable changes were made to the scheme last winter to meet requests from all parts of the House. The changes mean that the scheme is triggered at a higher temperature than previously. Also, considerable administrative changes were made so that people who have made claims will automatically get the claim again without having to apply, should severe weather happen again. It is an excellent scheme, far better than any previous scheme, and reasonably generous.