PRIME MINISTER
Engagements
Q1. Mr. Gerald Howarth
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 30 April.
The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)
This morning I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet and had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House, I shall be having further meetings later today.
Mr. Howarth
Does my right hon. Friend agree that in implementing promptly and in full the recommended 9.5 per cent. pay increase for nurses the Government have demonstrated their continuing commitment to improving the lot of the nursing profession, which has grown by 30,000 under the present Government? Does she also agree that there is no justification for the lightning teachers' strikes, such as those that are happening in my constituency at present, when the Government have awarded teachers a 25 per cent. average increase? That is far more than my constituents in manufacturing industry have been able to obtain.
The Prime Minister
I agree with my hon. Friend. Under the last Labour Government nurses' pay actually fell in terms of what it would purchase. Under the present Government it has gone up by 30 per cent. over and above the rate of inflation. As my hon. Friend says teachers have also done very well. Their pay will have increased by 27 per cent. over and above the rate of inflation. That shows that, under this Government, the growth that we have experienced has been put to very good use, not only in reducing taxation, but in bringing an enhanced standard of living to those who work in education and the social services.
Mr. Hattersley
On the basis of the information now available to her, will the Prime Minister admit that the Government's poll tax scheme, when combined with the so-called social security reform, will result in most families in this country on joint incomes of less than £21,000 a year being worse off than they are now, before the two schemes are implemented?
[column 408]The Prime Minister
The right hon. Gentleman is aware of some of the tables that have been published. He will now have to wait until we see what net incomes are and how much Labour authorities in particular spend and charge in rates.
Mr. Hattersley
The Prime Minister is trying to deny a fact that she either knows to be true or ought to know to be true. Such conduct only confirms that the Government are ruthlessly determined not to tell the truth about the financial consequences of their re-election. I put the question to the Prime Minister again. It is a matter of fact on which work has been done and has been published. Is it not true that the majority of families with joint incomes of £21,000 or less will be worse off, regardless of whether their local authority is Labour, Conservative or anything else?
The Prime Minister
What people will have to pay in rates, or later in community charge, will depend upon some of the expenditure of local authorities. Now I understand why the Leader of the Opposition is not present. It is because Ealing has increased its rate by about 62 per cent.
Mr. Hattersley
The Prime Minister is devious and disingenuous at the same time. The whole country will understand that she is determined not to tell the truth about the financial consequences of the re-election of her Government. It is all part of the secret manifesto, and we shall expose the lot.
The Prime Minister
Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman would give a list of the high rates of Left-Wing Labour authorities and the catastrophe, not only of the high rating of ILEA, but of the appalling education.
Mrs. McCurley
Will my right hon. Friend confound the dismal Jimmies and agree with me that Scotland's economic performance is one of the success stories of this Government and that that success story will continue if a Conservative Government are re-elected?
The Prime Minister
Yes. The CBI survey relating to England, Wales and Scotland was very optimistic. It showed a level of optimism that we have not seen for a very long time. The reports of the top 50 companies in Scotland are excellent and unemployment is now falling.
Mr. Roy Jenkins
rose—[Interruption.]
Mr. Speaker
Order. I know that we may be getting close to an exciting time, but—Mr. Jenkins.
Mr. Jenkins
I recognise that the Prime Minister is bound to attach considerable importance to the views of the right hon. Member for Cardiff, South and Penarth (Sir J. Callaghan) on the subject of an MI5 inquiry, but will she none the less repudiate, on reflection, the extraordinary constitutional doctrine that she appeared to be propounding on Tuesday, namely, that the activities of a permanent Government agency, however monstrous they may be alleged to be, cannot be inquired into once there has been a change of Government?
The Prime Minister
I have nothing to add to the replies that I have given before and to what I said on Tuesday.
Mr. Skinner
Frit.
Mr. Speaker
Order. When I call the hon. Member for Bolsover (Mr. Skinner) he may say what he wants to say, but I have not yet called him.
[column 409]Mr. Skinner
rose——
Mr. Speaker
Order. If the hon. Gentleman goes on like this, it will be a long time before I call him.
Mr. Maples
Will my right hon. Friend find time today to assure the House that the Government have no plans to raise the rate of VAT to the 25 per cent. that was reached under the last Labour Government?
The Prime Minister
Yes, and there are no plans to put VAT on food, either.
“World in Action”
Q2. Mr. Dalyell
asked the Prime Minister if she will acquire for the library of No. 10 Downing street a video recording of the Granada TV programme “World in Action” on the Law Officers' letter in the Westland affair, broadcast between 8 and 9 pm on Monday 30 March.
The Prime Minister
No, Sir.
Mr. Dalyell
May I ask the Prime Minister a question of fact which has not been put to her and which she has had no opportunity to answer? Is it, or is it not, true, as the programme suggests, that her Attorney-General summoned her Cabinet Secretary to confront him with the prospect of the New Scotland Yard police at No. 10 Downing street with the Department of Trade and Industry unless she agreed to an inquiry? Is the programme telling the truth, or is it not?
The Prime Minister
I have nothing to add to the many, many answers that I have given in statements and in reply to questions. I recognise that the hon. Gentleman will go on asking questions, but nothing can conceal the poverty of his policy.
Mr. Jackson
Further to my right hon. Friend's earlier answer——
Mr. Speaker
Order. This is a definitive question.
Mr. Foulkes
Is the Prime Minister aware that I am one of the 8 million viewers who heard that most respected reporter, James Naughtie, say—[Laughter.] He went to the same school as I did. James Naughtie confirmed that the centre of operations for releasing the Solicitor-General's letter was No. 10 Downing street. Can the Prime Minister tell us, therefore, why only selected parts of that letter were released? Was it because 10 Downing street considered Chris Moncrieff 's shorthand not good enough to take down all of it?
The Prime Minister
The hon. Member's source did not go to the same school as I did, and I am not responsible for the press.
Engagements
Q3. Mr. Phillip Oppenheim
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 30 April.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Oppenheim
In view of Government policy on local government expenditure, will my right hon. Friend reflect on the fact that Derbyshire county council recently announced a programme of massive spending increases in [column 410]line with Labour pledges, but has suddently and without explanation withdrawn the programme that it had submitted? Can my right hon. Friend think of any possible reason or any event in the near future, that might have influenced the county council's decision?
The Prime Minister
I understand that Derbyshire is the highest-rated county in England. This is very damaging to business in an area that needs more jobs, and it is highly damaging to domestic ratepayers. The county council may have had that in mind in considering future matters and events which will come about in the next 15 or so months.
Mr. Dormand
In view of the overwhelming evidence that unemployment affects the health of those without a job, confirmed in yet another medical report issued last week, will the Prime Minister say whether she feels any personal responsibility for the ill-health, some of it very serious, of thousands of people in this country, arising directly from her economic policies?
The Prime Minister
Overall, health in the United Kingdom has been improving steadily. Life expectancy continues to rise. Infant mortality has fallen by one third since 1979. When we came to power in 1979, only £7¾ billion was spent on the National Health Service. This financial year we shall spend about £20 billion, which shows the priority that we have given to the health of the people.
Q4. Sir Anthony Kershaw
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 30 April.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Sir Anthony Kershaw
With regard to disarmament negotiations, is it not clear that this hopeful situation which we now have has come about because of my right hon. Friend's robust attitude and her refusal unilaterally to throw away our armaments before negotiations begin? Are there not hopeful attitudes in this negotiation which we are about to start?
The Prime Minister
Yes. I do not believe that the Soviet Union would be thinking of taking out the majority of her SS20s unless we had stood firm and deployed the cruise missiles and Pershings, something that the Labour, Liberal and Social Democratic parties voted against in this House when the decision was made. We would prefer the Soviet Union to agree to a global zero-zero on intermediate nuclear weapons. So far it has been unwilling to do that, but that is what we shall continue to ask for.
Mr. Allan Roberts
Before repeating her usual assertion that there is no connection between the 20 per cent. increase in youth unemployment in Merseyside since 1979 and the 40 per cent. increase in crime on Merseyside over which her Government has ministered since 1979, will the Prime Minister tell the House what she thinks about that well-known Victorian saying, oft repeated in Finchley, that the Devil finds work for idle hands?
The Prime Minister
I am sure that the hon. Gentleman has heard references several times to studies which show that there is no direct relationship between unemployment and crime. I am sure that he is very much aware that there are countries which have lower unemployment than we [column 411]have but which have higher rates of crime. I further refer him to an article in the Daily Mail on Wednesday 22 April by Dr. Alice Coleman, who said:
“Historically, there is no evidence that joblessness is the major stimulus to crime.” She went on to say:
“The runaway growth in offences began in the post-war period of full employment, and it was then often suggested that young delinquents were the spoilt products of affluence.” The hon. Gentleman is aware that the peak age for crime is 15. That is not related to unemployment.
Q5. Mr. Stokes
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 30 April.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Stokes
Is my right hon. Friend aware that many of my constituents in the west midlands are trade [column 412]unionists, many of whom are supporters of mine? Is she aware of the tremendous change in attitude that has taken place on the shop floor in recent months as a result of Government legislation, with such things as no strike agreements, the end of the closed shop and a generally much healthier and more realistic attitude among the workers? Is she aware that many of them are now capitalists, owning their houses, and shares too?
The Prime Minister
I agree with my hon. Friend. Our trade union reforms have helped to transform the climate for business. We now have the lowest number of days lost through disputes for 20 years. It is our reforms, and the way in which trade unions have responded, that are in part responsible for the excellent optimistic business survey that we have seen this week. I am delighted that under this Government far more trade unionists own their own homes and shares and have more savings than ever would have happened under Labour.