I
… . famous Statesman … .
PM
Harold MacmillanHe was Prime Minister when I first came into the House of Commons in 1959 and I remember his total control and mastery of the House but I also remember something which I've noticed in certain other politicians. Those who went through the First World War and experienced it had a very special deep quality about them. They lost so many of their friends, they saw the most terrible war and it just affected everything they did after that.
I
Would you say that it's compassion he'd be most remembered for?
PM
He's remembered for so many things. That strand ran very deeply within him, partly because of his experiences again as member for Stockton which again etched themselves on his mind very deeply. He really became a total institution, you know, he was unique in the affections, I think, of the British people and it's just like, as one member of his family said to me this morning when I telephoned. It's as if one of the great oaks in the forest has just crashed. It does feel like that because although we knew he was getting on but somehow, well, we hoped there'd be miracles and he would live.
I
Would you say he's the breed of politician who cannot be replaced?
PM
I don't think he's replaceable at all, he's quite unique. When you think his life spanned very nearly a century and a century of the biggest change both technologically and in politics and in the whole communications.
I
You have had your differences, though, on occasions.
PM
Oh yes, but very, very similar things as well. He first gave me my job as Parliamentary Secretary at the Ministry of Pensions in 1961. It was from him that I received that and then I remember him very well, when long after he had retired, just the weekend of the invasion of the Falklands, he came into my room at the House and said, ‘I come as senior Conservative Prime Minister living, I come to offer you our total support in your endeavour and I advise you to set up an emergency committee of just four or five and not more so you can meet regularly.’ And not only did he come offering his support but he came with advice which was directly to the point. [end p1] And I was in touch with him quite a lot when I was Leader of the Opposition and he was an enormous help. He gave very generously of his experience to younger politicians.
I
But, Prime Minister, he was very critical of some of your policies, on privatisation for example, which he said was selling off the family silver. Did that come between you?
PM
No, of course not. People are free to say just exactly what they wish. That didn't come between us at all. Sometimes I was critical of some of the things he said or did. So what, we were in politics, we were friends and colleagues. That doesn't mean you have to say identical things the whole of the time.
I
Prime Minister, he was given an image as the actor manager but also as the man who presided over the night of the long knives. Which is the true picture of him?
PM
Actor manager … . He was a marvellous Prime Minister. He was greater than any of the things you've mentioned, and as I said he became a kind of institution. It takes all parts to make up the whole man. He was a very remarkable man and a very great patriot. WE'll remember him for that.
I
What would you say were his main achievements as Prime Minister?
PM
Again I remember when he took over it was just in the aftermath of Suez and he got the whole party and the whole country together again and got the economy going very well indeed, and it was a great sorrow when he became ill in 1963 because he was really then just about at the zenith of his powers, and I'll never forget the closeness of the relationship between Britain and the United States when he was Prime Minister and then it was an older Prime Minister here and a much younger J. F. KennedyPresident there. But they were very very close together. And remember we had the Cuba crisis at that time. So he was a man of very many parts, all of them supremely able, whether it was the compassion, whether it was the depth of his feeling, having been through the First World War, whether it was his wisdom as a Statesman or whether it was his knowledge of how to create a very prosperous business. But remember him above all, I would say, almost as a soldier Statesman because that early period in [end p2] his life had a very great effect upon him and no-one can replace him. We all felt bereft. Yes, we knew it was going to happen but when it did happen it was just a shock.
I
Do you think his going marks in any way the end of that old-fashioned Disraeli tradition of the Tory party?
PM
No, I don't. It's strange you should mention Disraeli. I remember Harold Macmillan very well when I was a junior Minister, he made me a junior Minister at the Ministry of Pensions and National Insurance, and I remember him telling us many times, “Look, read Trollope and read Disraeli.” And of course we all did.
I
Did he ever pass on to you any tips about stamina as a Prime Minister?
PM
No. I admired his stamina enormously. He was a marvellous speaker. He had a lovely speaking voice. It's just a pity we didn't have more television in those times, isn't it? And he was just a very wonderful person, but a great patriot and a great Statesman.
I
Do you think he made any serious mistakes in his political career?
PM
Oh, I'm not here to talk about mistakes tonight. I'm only here to honour a person for whose life we are immensely grateful. We all make mistakes and if we didn't we wouldn't be human. And if we weren't human we wouldn't be here. And I don't think any of us have been any exception to that rule. Thank you, good night.