Radio Interview for IRN (special Commonwealth Summit on South Africa)

Question (Not On Tape)

Prime Minister

There are differing views about how many sanctions we should impose, but the fact is that British interest in South Africa is so very much greater than the interests of most other states. The Front Line States, of course, have a different interest.

Our differences are represented in what we are prepared to do and I think it is a fact that if we implement the European communique at The Hague, if we decide to implement it when the time comes, then what we have agreed to do would have I think a more substantial effect upon South Africa than a bigger number of measures by other countries.

Peter Murphy, IRN

Is that not belittling, though, the action of the other Commonwealth leaders? [end p1]

Prime Minister

No, it is not. It is recognising the varying positions. Obviously, we have enormous investments in South Africa, historically we have, and they still remain, so a ban on new investment has a very considerable effect and an economic effect for one thing but I am afraid a blow to morale upon the future of some of those industries in another.

Obviously, the fact that there are 800,000 people, citizens of South Africa, who are entitled to a British passport, is also something that no-one else in the Commonwealth has. Those are great difficulties and to ignore those differences would be ridiculous.

Peter Murphy, IRN

You have made a couple of new changes immediately. Are these more than just gestures?

Prime Minister

A ban on new investment we shall hope to implement in the coming months as the other things that the Commonwealth have also agreed, and it is a voluntary ban because as you know we have no exchange controls. It has to be a voluntary ban. There is a voluntary ban on the promotion of tourism. I think that they have an impact greater than would be apparent from the surface of the words.

For the reason I indicated a moment ago, a ban on new investment relates to very considerable interests in South Africa. A ban on the promotion of tourism also relates to very considerable numbers of people in South Africa who have relatives here, so there [end p2] is a much bigger effect for us than there would be for many other Commonwealth countries.

Peter Murphy, IRN

Could you not have moved closer to the rest of the Commonwealth on other items?

Prime Minister

Yes, but then, do not forget the measures that we have taken or are proposing to take will have a bigger impact in reality on South Africa than the combined measures that many of the others are proposing to take and I think that is quite enough, bearing in mind that, as you know, we do not believe that sanctions bring about internal change in a country.

Peter Murphy, IRN

The ban on iron, coal and steel is dependent upon the rest of the Common Market. Are you going to actively try and persuade the rest of the Common Market to ban those imports?

Prime Minister

No, I have said that if most of the Common Market agrees to implement those, that I will not stand in the way and I will not argue against it.

Peter Murphy, IRN

If there is no change out of South Africa over the next couple of months, do you think that come the autumn you will once again be looking at sanctions? [end p3]

Prime Minister

No, we are not talking about the time-scale of a couple of months.

First, the matters agreed with the European Community which are not agreed in the sense that they have not been implemented will not come again until the end of September, and that is when we shall take the final decision.

You know, you cannot just ignore contractual agreements between companies in one country and companies in another. These things actually act only on new contracts. Existing contracts run out. You cannot just break existing contracts. You would have enormous liabilities and what would be the point of making a contract if you could not be certain that it would be carried out.

So there is quite a long time factor in being able to assess the effect of the things that are being proposed and which may come about as a result of the Commonwealth Agreement and as a result of what the European Community may or may not agree at the end of September.

Peter Murphy, IRN

Finally, this was billed as a make-or-break summit for the Commonwealth. How stands the Commonwealth now?

Prime Minister

I think rather stronger. I never thought that it would cause undue trouble. We have always been a Commonwealth which has recognised that different countries have different problems. We faced many different problems and the Commonwealth has continued [end p4] and continues very strong. It is still very strong, and will continue that way.

Peter Murphy, IRN

So you do not expect to see any walk-outs as a result?

Prime Minister

Good Heavens, no!