PRIME MINISTER
Engagements
Q1. Sir John Biggs-Davison
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 10 July.
The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)
This morning I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet and had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in this House I shall be having further meetings later today.
[column 441]Sir John Biggs-Davison
Will my right hon. Friend give an assurance that Her Majesty's Government will not countenance force against South Africa, recalling the Leader of the Opposition's advocacy of mandatory United Nations sanctions, the logic of which, according to the right hon. Member for Leeds, East (Mr. Healey), is that we must be prepared for a naval action against South Africa—and that was the ex-Minister who wanted to arm the South African navy?
The Prime Minister
I am glad to respond to my hon. Friend. The Government are not talking about the use of force in connection with apartheid in South Africa. Rather are we calling for the suspension of violence on all sides and seeking a peaceful solution. I hope that everyone on both sides of the House will wish my right hon. and learned Friend Sir Geoffrey Howethe Foreign Secretary well in his great endeavours.
Q3. Mr. Hanley
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 10 July.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Hanley
The House is rightly concerned with the issue of sanctions, and, indeed, with the effect that that debate is having around the world, but perhaps the House is losing sight of the positive steps that the Government are taking to help the blacks in South Africa and in the frontline states. Will my right hon. Friend take this opportunity to remind us of what the Government are doing to help those whom all hon. Members wish to help?
The Prime Minister
As my hon. Friend is aware, at the recent European Community Heads of Government meeting we agreed to take positive measures to help the blacks in South Africa and we have allocated a further £15 million over the next five years for that purpose in addition to the £22 million that we are already spending. Last year we gave £70 million in aid to Zimbabwe, Zambia, Mozambique, Botswana, Lesotho and Swaziland.
Mr. Kinnock
Has the Prime Minister seen the report from the Select Committee on Social Services, which has a seven to three Conservative majority, which says:
“Taking into account efficiency savings, on the most favourable interpretation of the Government's own data for the last five years, the Government has done no more than half what, by its own admission, should have been done … total underfunding of the hospital and community health services was £1,325 billion” .
When will the Prime Minister provide enough resources to come up to even the minimum standards set by her Government?
The Prime Minister
I have not seen the detail of that report, as it came out only this morning. I am aware of some of the figures. May I point out that spending on the National Health Service has increased from £7.5 billion in 1978–79 to £18.75 billion in 1986–87. That means that the average expenditure per family to finance the Health Service out of taxation has gone up from less than £11 per family per week to £27 per family per week. That is what families have to find in tax to finance the Health Service, which is the best Health Service that we have ever had.
Mr. Kinnock
Has it occurred to the Prime Minister that families not only pay taxes but need dependable health services, and that they have a real grievance now over the deficiencies in that Service? Does she not accept that, on [column 442]her Ministers' own admissions, the figure that she used earlier should be at least a third higher in order to meet the realities of increasing numbers of frail elderly people, of changes in medical technology and of changes in provision of community services? The Prime Minister has asked that the facts should talk. Do not these facts of underfunding talk very clearly and say that the Health Service is not and never will be safe in the Prime Minister's hands?
The Prime Minister
No. We have the best Health Service ever. It is safe in our hands, and it far exceeds what the last Labour Government did. I note that the Merrison committee set up by the Labour Government said:
“We had no difficulty in believing the proposition put to us by one medical witness, that we can easily spend the whole of the gross national product on the health service.”
Every Government have to work within constraints, but what the right hon. Gentleman said about an extra third would mean that every family would immediately have to increase its spending from £27 per week on the National Health Service to £36 per week.
Mr. Hicks
Will my right hon. Friend examine the Commission's proposals for New Zealand butter imports for the next two years, which, if implemented, could have adverse effects not only for our dairy farmers but for our taxpayers? Will she recall that these arrangements were meant to be transitional, yet New Zealand today has a greater share of our butter market than it did in 1973 at an annual cost in excess of £100 million?
The Prime Minister
As my hon. Friend—and, I believe, the House—is aware, we have always fought for New Zealand in the Community, knowing full well the importance of both lamb and butter to that economy. The amount that the Commission is proposing should be permitted to be imported for the next two years is, of course, considerably less—indeed, almost half—what it was when we went in at the beginning, and the figures being proposed represent a reduction on current levels, but are in line with what was proposed when the question was last discussed in 1984. I believe that we should continue to fight for New Zealand in the Community, but I believe that the figures should be realistic and that those have been proposed by the Commission are realistic.
Mr. Steel
If I may revert to South Africa and look back at the whirlwind of interviews that the Prime Minister has given over the last 48 hours, of which result is she most proud? Is it the paean of praise showered on her by Pretoria state radio, the humiliation of the Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary in Zambia and Zimbabwe, or the damage to the Commonwealth games in Edinburgh?
The Prime Minister
Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman does not know it, but I think that the argument against general economic sanctions and punitive economic sanctions has been won. I notice that The Guardian says today:
“Economic sanctions will not bring South Africa to its knees: they will mean that black children starve: the desolation of the Pretoria economy would be a tragedy for all Africa.”
That is true. Is that what the right hon. Gentleman wants?
Mr. Norris
Would my right hon. Friend care to comment on her view this morning of the new Rover 800 series car, and will she join me in congratulating my constituents at Cowley on a magnificent product and wish it well for the future?
[column 443]The Prime Minister
I saw the car and it is excellent and of superb design. I hope that it will sell well, and I can certainly recommend the blue one that I drove this morning.
Q5. Mr. Yeo
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 10 July.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Yeo
In applauding my right hon. Friend's determination to reduce the burden of tax on the lower paid, may I urge her to consider further increases in tax thresholds, further reductions in employee national insurance contributions for low-paid workers and the re-introduction of a lower rate of taxation, in preference to cutting the basic rate of income tax, as all those three measures are far more cost-effective ways of using available resources?
The Prime Minister
As my hon. Friend is aware, our objective remains to reduce the burden of income tax, particularly on those on average earnings or lower pay. Some 18 million taxpayers are on below-average male earnings, but they pay 42 per cent. of the yield of income tax. We must have special regard to the amount that they pay. It remains our aim to reduce it. My hon. Friend has a particular scheme, which I shall draw to the attention of my right hon. Friend Nigel Lawsonthe Chancellor of the Exchequer.
Mrs. Renée Short
I am sure that the Prime Minister is delighted with the vindication of Mrs. Wendy Savage by the committee set up to investigate her clinical competence. Will the Prime Minister now ensure that those consultants who accused Mrs. Savage, and who deprived her patients of her skill and care for all these months, are investigated by the committee of the teaching district?
The Prime Minister
I shall draw what the hon. Lady has said to the attention of my right hon. Friend Norman Fowlerthe Secretary of State for Social Services.
Mr. Lyell
Will my right hon. Friend warn the public, and particularly employees and trades unionists, against the reported Labour party proposal to remove from the courts and hand over to some trades union-based quango the power, such as it might be, to enforce their rights to secret ballots before strikes, and to elect union officials? How can this be described as either freedom or fairness?
The Prime Minister
I gladly agree with my hon. and learned Friend. It has been our purpose to give ordinary members of trades unions legally enforceable rights to have a proper ballot and we shall continue to pursue that objective.
Q6. Mr. Kirkwood
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 10 July.
The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Kirkwood
Is the Prime Minister aware that the proposed social security regulations designed to restrict single payments available to claimants on supplementary benefit were expected to be laid on the Table of the House this week, but have now been deliberately suppressed by the DHSS until after the Newcastle-under-Lyme by-election? Was she consulted about the decision on timing, [column 444]and will she give the House a guarantee that the regulations will be debated before the recess and not implemented by stealth during the recess?
The Prime Minister
It is my understanding that the regulations will be debated before the recess.
Q9. Mr. Winnick
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 10 July.
The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Winnick
Is the Prime Minister aware that those of us who are very much opposed to her policy on South Africa hope, nevertheless, that the Commonwealth leaders, when they meet, will bear in mind that the Prime Minister does not represent the majority of British opinion, and moreover that the days of her wretched Administration are coming to an end?
The Prime Minister
I am afraid that the hon. Gentleman is guilty of wishful thinking on the latter point. I believe that the overwhelming majority of the British people reject the use of force to try to solve the South African problem, wish to have a suspension of violence and a peaceful solution, and support my right hon. and learned Friend Sir Geoffrey Howethe Foreign Secretary in his mission.
Mrs. McCurley
Now that the European Court has delivered its judgment on compensation for nationalisation, will my right hon. Friend suggest how Parliament can protect the property rights of the citizens of this country, particularly if, God help us, there are predations from the Labour side of the House, if the Opposition are ever returned to government?
The Prime Minister
The people can protect the property rights of citizens by never returning a Labour Government.
Q10. Mr. Ray Powell
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 10 July.
The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Powell
The Prime Minister can get into a fit about sanctions against South Africa, but has she considered that the bloodstained coal of South Africa has caused the redundancy of many people in this country, particularly in my constituency, where her Government have closed five collieries and put 5,000 miners out of work? Is she aware that since the miners' strike hundreds of miners have been pushed out of work because coal is being imported from South Africa? What are the Prime Minister and her Government going to do to stop that?
The Prime Minister
Judging from the drift of the hon. Gentleman's question, he is against causing further unemployment by imposing sanctions on South Africa. To impose sanctions on South Africa would cause further unemployment there and would cause further unemployment here. I understand that the hon. Gentleman does not wish that to happen. Nor do I.
Q12. Mr. Colin Shepherd
asked the Prime Minister of she will list her official engagements for Thursday 10 July.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Shepherd
Is my right hon. Friend aware that the whole nation will be watching carefully the progress that [column 445]she makes with her new Rover Sterling car? As for the future of this car, does my right hon. Friend agree that it will outsell Mercedes and Audi only if its quality and reliability are of the absolute topmost maximum possible effectiveness?
[column 446]The Prime Minister
I believe that that car is of the topmost design, that it has a super engine and that every attention has been given to every detail. Special extra provision will also be made for its export to the United States. We wish it well. I have great faith in the car.