TV Interview for ITN (Luxembourg European Council)

Michael Brunson, ITN

Prime Minister, you have had an extremely long day, stretching well after midnight. It does not, frankly, seem a very efficient way of conducting the Community's business.

Prime Minister

No, I can see why you say that, but there were a number of things before it which were very complicated. But quite apart from that, I thought that some of the argument went on and on and on and on. You know, if a whole group of women had gone on like that, people would say: “Don't they argue!” but in fact it was me who was trying to say: “Look! You must come to a conclusion! We have talked about this. Now we must come to a conclusion!” and in the end we did.

Michael Brunson, ITN

How would you describe what you have achieved here?

Prime Minister

I think we have had a modest success. I think we have managed to reduce other people's exaggerated expectations [end p1] of treaty changes. As you know, some wanted to give the Parliament enormous powers which would have caused great problems; others wanted monetary union; and others wanted far too many articles going away from the unanimous …   . that we usually use to qualified majority. We wanted a limited amount. Others wanted changes in taxation on a much greater scale, whereas we are very very cautious about that. We have reduced all of these exaggerated expectations to something that I hope is workable and reasonable.

Michael Brunson, ITN

This shift to qualify for majority voting is obviously going to worry some people. They are perhaps going to feel that now there is a possibility of more decisions being taken by a vote by other countries in Europe, in other words lessening the sovereignty of Westminster and the right of Britain to make its own laws.

Prime Minister

Yes, but you know, in some things a qualified majority was adversely affecting us. People, because they would not vote unanimously, were stopping us for example in setting up in insurance in Europe. We are good at it. They were stopping us in certain financial circles. They were stopping some of our young people with qualifications practising in Europe. We did not think that was fair, so we have gone to qualified majority on those things. On other things, you are quite right. We had to [end p2] stand out and say that if there was qualified majority, our special interests were protected. For example, as you know, we have to keep out rabies, brucallosis (phon.), Colorado beetle and a number of special health things in both animals and plants, and we have managed to keep those out by special provision.

So you are right. It cuts both ways and you have to watch and see that your interests are not adversely affected, but you can in fact set up trade and business.

There is one thing, you know, this thing called the Luxembourg Compromise which says that even if the majority agrees, if you have a special interest you can invoke that Compromise and really stop it from going through, and that remains.

Michael Brunson, ITN

What you are really saying then is that even after this, if you do not like something you can still veto it?

Prime Minister

If you have a special national interest at stake, but only if you have a special national interest at stake.

Michael Brunson, ITN

It sounds as though, Prime Minister—your critics on the other side might say—you are picking and choosing again. You are doing the bits you want for Britain, not very …   .

Prime Minister

No, that is just not right. You cannot just say: [end p3] “Please, I do not like it. Therefore I am not going to have it!” You have to have a very special reason.

Now, we have put special reasons in for health, animals and plants because we have special reasons and we have written those in the revised treaty. Other people might have special reasons. It might be that the whole of their industry is affected, but you cannot stop it just because you do not like the competition.

Michael Brunson, ITN

Finally, on Mr. King's remarks. I know that you have stressed that you and Mr. King are in agreement and that the Anglo-Irish Accord will go ahead. The point, I think, though is that the Irish Government have taken extreme exception to his remarks tonight, because they think that he is saying that the possibility, however faint, of a united Ireland, is ruled out for ever.

Prime Minister

Well I am sorry they have taken it that way. The full position is set out in article one of that particular Accord and it remains—that Northern Ireland will stay as part of the United Kingdom so long as the majority wish it. If a majority wish to do something else or go the other way, then of course we would bring the appropriate provisions before Parliament, but I think Tom and I both hope and expect that the majority will remain and therefore hope, expect and positively want Northern Ireland to stay part of the United Kingdom, but it is governed by the Accord. [end p4]

Michael Brunson, ITN

But as you say, there is that faint possibility that if things were to go the other way, however remote, that is allowed for in the Accord. Mr. King thinks it would be ruling it completely out.

Prime Minister

No, that would depend upon there not being a majority to stay in the United Kingdom and a majority for something else, and I think that Tom KingTom and I both hope and expect that the majority will remain to stay within the United Kingdom, but it is governed by the Accord and by the majority wanting it to be that way.

Michael Brunson, ITN

Does he still have your support on the Northern Ireland matter?

Prime Minister

Yes of course, he is excellent, and he is doing very well.