PRIME MINISTER
Engagements
Q1. Mr. Thurnham
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 11 July.
The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)
This morning I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet and had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in this House I shall be having further meetings later today.
Mr. Thurnham
Does my right hon. Friend agree that the best way to reduce unemployment is to lighten the burden of taxes and interest rates on employers and employed alike by sensible and firm control of public spending? Is she aware that the success of Government policies is evidenced by new factories and shops as well as a new road, a new railway and a new hospital to be built in Bolton?
The Prime Minister
I agree wholly with my hon. Friend and I am very pleased that our firm policies have borne such excellent fruit in his constituency.
[column 1257]Mr. Kinnock
Did the Prime Minister remind her colleagues at this morning's Cabinet meeting that, since she came to office, public spending has risen by a record 16.5 per cent., and did she tell them whether they should complain or boast about that record, as they do not seem to know?
The Prime Minister
At this morning's meeting the Cabinet confirmed the public expenditure totals published in the Red Book of £139 billion for 1986–87 and £144 billion for 1987–88. Our objective is to try to reduce public spending as a proportion of national income. Public spending as a proportion of national income hit a peak under the Labour Government.
Mr. Kinnock
Does the Prime Minister intend to achieve that by cutting investment, or by cutting current expenditure on, for instance, benefits? Does she intend to continue the course which, despite the pleas of the CBI, has brought cuts of 6 per cent. on repairs, 6 per cent. on roads and 54 per cent. on housing, while running a budget that has increased taxation as a proportion of gross national product from 36 to 42 per cent.? Which of those records is she proud of?
The Prime Minister
Public expenditure this year is £134 billion. As I have said, it will be £139 billion next year. As the right hon. Gentleman knows, within the totals certain programmes have priority. Health and pensions, in particular, have had priority. As the right hon. Gentleman well knows, we have protected capital expenditure. When the Labour Government had to reduce expenditure enormously at the instance of the International Monetary Fund the then Chief Secretary, now Lord Barnett, said that
“it was politically easier to cut capital than to cut current expenditure” .
and that under the Labour Government.
“The misery was shared out although the cuts disproportionately affected capital rather than current expenditure, as was invariably the case.”
The Labour Government cut capital expenditure. We have increased it.
Mr. Kinnock
The right hon. Lady is misleading the House, even on her own figures. If she will look at her own White Paper on public expenditure, she will discover that the overall capital programme in real terms is down from £20 billion to £19 billion over the past six years. Will the right hon. Lady now tell us the answer to the question whether the Conservative party should be boasting or complaining about the 16.5 per cent. rise in public spending? Should it be complaining or boasting about the 6 per cent. rise in the share of GNP on taxation? Is the right hon. Lady proud of spending, or is she proud of cutting? Is she an Iron Lady—[Interruption.]
Mr. Speaker
Order. Mr. Kinnock.
Mr. Kinnock
Conservative Members are only delaying things. I was asking the Prime Minister whether she is proud of her record as a spender, or as a cutter. Is she an Iron Lady or is she a closet flexi-toy?
The Prime Minister
Compared with the Labour Government's record, all members of my Government and Back Benchers should be proclaiming this Government's record with great pride. In practice, the last Labour Government—[Interruption.] In practice—[Interruption.]
Mr. Speaker
Order. I ask the House to hear the answer.
[column 1258]The Prime Minister
In practice, the last Labour Government cut expenditure on hospitals by 35 per cent. Capital expenditure on hospitals is now up by 23 per cent. Labour cut expenditure on roads by 33 per cent. The Conservatives have now put it up by 25 per cent. Labour cut capital expenditure on water by 29 per cent. Last year we put it up. The Labour Government's record was appalling.
Sir Peter Tapsell
Do not the last two questions by the Leader of the Opposition indicate that, to his usual gift of loquacity, he has now added economic schizophrenia?
The Prime Minister
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his astute observation.
Mr. Dalyell
When the Prime Minister talked of flexi-toys, which of her distinguished colleagues did she have in mind?
The Prime Minister
None of mine; some of those on a certain Bench below the Gangway who are prepared to attune their policies to every by-election, whatever constituency it may be.
Q2. Mr. Dover
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 11 July.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Dover
Will my right hon. Friend take the opportunity today to pay tribute to those involved in the repair work to the M1 in Hertfordshire, and particularly the contractors? Will she respond positively to the calls by the TUC and CBI for more road repair work?
The Prime Minister
I gladly congratulate all those who have virtually completed the repair work on the M1 ahead of time. I congratulate those who did the work, and my right hon. and hon. Friends at the Department of Transport who arranged it so excellently.
May I point out that spending on major motorway repairs is up by more than 50 per cent. in real terms. [Interruption.]
Mr. Speaker
Order. The hon. Member who asked the question has a right to hear the reply.
The Prime Minister
The M1 is a splendid example of the fact that, since 1978–79, spending on major motorway repairs has increased by more than 50 per cent. in real terms.
Dr. Owen
Does the Prime Minister have any idea of the consequences for district health authorities of the Government's failure to meet the full bill for the desirable increase in nurses' pay? Does she accept that it will involve ward closures, cuts in services and the postponement of equipment purchase on a massive scale? Does she agree that if we will the end of increasing nurses' pay, we should provide the means for the NHS to meet the bill?
The Prime Minister
This Government have provided far more in real terms than did the Government of whom the right hon. Gentleman was such a proud member. The Labour Government cut the National Health Service budget in real terms in two years. The expenditure must be met either from the enlarged budget during this Administration, or through increased taxation. Which would the right hon. Gentleman choose? If it is met by [column 1259]increased taxation, we would be taking money out of people's pockets and losing the jobs which the expenditure of that money would have created.
Dr. Michael Clark
Does my right hon. Friend agree that the decision by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office to require foreign diplomats in this country to pay their parking fines should be welcomed? Does she also agree that it should be extended so that diplomats in Britain either obey the rest of our laws or are sent home?
The Prime Minister
I share my hon. Friend's views and congratulate my right hon. and learned Friend Sir Geoffrey Howethe Foreign Secretary on the very firm stand that he has taken.
Q3. Mr. Dubs
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 11 July.
The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Dubs
Can the Prime Minister say whether, after six years of her Government, the British people have derived any benefit from North sea oil?
The Prime Minister
Yes, of course. First, they have derived a great deal of benefit in income, which has been pumped straight out into services such as the National Health Service and law and order. The money has gone straight into the annual budget and straight out again. The income has enabled us gradually to replace that asset with overseas assets, which will continue to bring in income long after North sea oil has gone. When we came to power, overseas assets were worth £12 billion; now they are worth £76 billion. They regularly produce income in interest and dividends and give us a high invisible surplus to add to our balance of payments.
Mr. Michael McNair-Wilson
In view of the remarks of the Lord Chief Justice this week about the role of television and television news reports in perpetuating violence, does my right hon. Friend believe that there is now a case for a broadcasting council?
The Prime Minister
Of course, I am always prepared to consider that. I very much welcome what Lord Lanethe Lord Chief Justice said and I hope that the BBC and the Independent Broadcasting Authority will take note of it. The amount of violence that is seen on television is bound to have an effect on those least able to adjudge it.
Q4. Mr. Leighton
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 11 July.
The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Leighton
Can the Prime Minister explain why all the pundits and commentators now say that she is no longer an asset to the Conservative party?
The Prime Minister
In that case, I wonder why the hon. Gentleman attacks me so fiercely.
[column 1260]Mr. Adley
Is my right hon. Friend aware that she is much better off relying on the views of the thousands of paid-up members of the Conservative party in my constituency than on her reputation among what the hon. Gentleman calls the media pundits? Now that we can look back at the Brecon and Radnor by-election dispassionately, does she agree that the MORI poll—although that company is now discredited—undoubtedly had a considerable effect on the outcome? Notwithstanding the fact that media hype is part of the stock in trade of the Liberal party, should we not reconsider, as do other European countries, the role of opinion polls in public elections?
The Prime Minister
Doubtless hon. Members will wish to consider that policy. As my hon. Friend is aware, it has never been any part of my policy to put undue constraints on those matters unless there is considerable reason for doing so.
Dr. David Clark
Has the Prime Minister had time today to read the report of the bombing and sinking of the Greenpeace ship Rainbow Warrior in Auckland? I realise that Greenpeace has embarrassed many people, but it has harmed none. Will she cable Prime Minister Lange and tell him that if he wishes we shall offer them all the facilities of the British services to try to track down the people who perpetrated that crime?
The Prime Minister
I appreciate the anxiety that the hon. Gentleman expresses. It is a matter for the New Zealand police. We await the outcome of the inquiries. If they ask for help, of course we shall consider giving it.
Mr. Parry
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker
Does it arise out of Question Time?
Mr. Parry
Yes, Mr. Speaker. As I was not called on question No. 3——
Mr. Speaker
Order. I know that the hon. Member was not called on question No. 3, but he was called on question No. 7. I think that he asked the supplementary question that he intended for question No. 3. I cannot help him. He was out of order.
Mr. Parry
As I received no reply, I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment as soon as possible.
Mr. Faulds
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, arising directly out of Prime Minister's Questions. You are renowned for your generosity and kindliness. [Interruption.] I am not after a job. In view of that, I wonder whether you could arrange for the Prime Minister to be sent on a long sabbatical, because she is obviously tiring. She would then have a chance to rethink all her policies.
Mr. Speaker
Thankfully, we are all going on a long sabbatical soon.