PRIME MINISTER
Engagements
Q1. Mrs. McCurley
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 23 May.
The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)
This morning I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet and had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in this House, I shall be having further meetings later today.
Mrs. McCurley
Will my right hon. Friend take this opportunity to repeat the message that she gave to the [column 1151]women's conference yesterday, for the benefit of those on the Opposition Benches and the country at large, and point out that the Government have consistently increased spending on health, social security, social services, transport and various other things? Will she nail the myths about cuts? Will she take the opportunity to repeat that message until the country gets it?
The Prime Minister
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for underlining the points that I made yesterday. May I point out, in regard to the National Health Service, that the only cuts that we have made are cuts in waiting lists, and they are very welcome.
Mr. Kinnock
On Tuesday the Prime Minister gave a forecast for the inflation rate at the end of the year. Will she be as forthcoming today about the unemployment figures? At the end of the year, will they be up or will they be down?
The Prime Minister
No one has ever given a specific forecast on unemployment when answering from this Dispatch Box, either as a Labour or as a Tory Minister. No one really can.
Mr. Kinnock
How can the Prime Minister be so specific about inflation rates in six months' time and so vague and evasive about unemployment rates in six months' time? How could she be so bold yesterday with the Tory ladies conference and so coy today with the House of Commons and the public? Is it not the case that she knows very well that unemployment will continue to go up and that that is a disgrace and a strain on her Government? What will she do about getting the unemployment rate down?
The Prime Minister
The real answer to the first part of the right hon. Gentleman's question is that inflation is generally easier to predict over the short term than unemployment. Every Minister has recognised that. With regard to asking me to underline the message I gave yesterday, I am delighted to do that. Doctors and dentists are up nearly 10,000, nurses and midwives are up 57,000, home helps are up 3,000, health visitors are up 900, district nurses are up 1,700, patients treated are up 3.5 million each year, and teachers' pay on average is up 9 per cent. in real terms over what it was under Labour.
Mr. Kinnock
I am glad that the right hon. Lady said that. There are now more nurses unemployed, more qualified doctors unemployed, and more qualified teachers unemployed than ever before. When will she get unemployment down? What will the trend be at the end of the year?
The Prime Minister
There are also 600,000 more jobs than two years ago. The way to tackle the unemployment is to create more jobs.
Mr. Wheeler
Has my right hon. Friend had an opportunity to read the report of the Home Affairs Select Committee on hard drugs, which was published today? Does she agree that one of the most serious problems facing the British people is the menace of hard drugs? Does she agree with the recommendations for new legislation to deal with the seizure of assets and to stop the traffickers in their tracks?
The Prime Minister
The Government will consider the report of the Select Committee carefully. As my hon. Friend knows, we have already made a statement of our [column 1152]strategy for drugs, and I am happy to confirm that we intend to introduce legislation to seize and confiscate the proceeds of drug traffickers.
Mr. Merlyn Rees
The Prime Minister does not believe the old public opinion polls, does she?
The Prime Minister
No, Sir—whatever they say.
Mr. Sayeed
Does my right hon. Friend accept that “restoring standards” appears to mean—to the National Union of Teachers—raising teachers' pay, while to the rest of us it means improving standards of education, discipline and apolitical commitment to students? Will she, therefore, take time today to confirm that the unions cannot hope to achieve what they want unless they are prepared to give the country what it needs?
The Prime Minister
My right hon. Friend Sir Keith Josephthe Secretary of State for Education and Science has tackled education in the right way, that is, by trying to raise standards in schools. That has been most welcome among parents and most teachers. He is also tackling the pay problem in the right way by saying that we should know precisely what teachers' duties are and that, as in most other careers in the United Kingdom, teachers should be subject to an assessment of performance. That being so, we should like to be able to provide more money next year for teachers, provided that those things are satisfied.
Q2. Mr. Terry Fields
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 23 May.
The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Fields
In sending in the district auditor to try to sack local authority workers, especially young workers, in Liverpool, does the Prime Minister intend to create a reserve army of part-time scarecrows to benefit her rich farming friends? In attempting further to strip workers of their dignity and self-respect, is she not becoming immortalised, like Marie-Antoinette, by a new slogan, “Let them eat bird seed” , or some similar epithet?
The Prime Minister
As the hon. Gentleman knows, the district auditor acts independently. I hope that Liverpool will follow the example of most other authorities and set a legal rate. I hope that the hon. Gentleman is not encouraging it to act illegally.
Mr. Powley
Does my right hon. Friend agree that it is simple to achieve a temporary improvement in unemployment, but that we need a permanent improvement in employment without increasing inflation and interest rates, and without dragging the country to its knees, as we would do if we followed the Opposition's policies?
The Prime Minister
I agree with my hon. Friend. He will be well aware that the economic policies which the Government are pursuing were affirmed by the seven industrial countries which met at the Bonn economic summit, including Socialist France.
Q3. Mr. Blair
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 23 May.
The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Blair
Has the Prime Minister read the latest regional trends? Is she aware that it discloses a growing gap between north and south in unemployment, [column 1153]redundancies, lost job opportunities, homelessness, poverty and deprivation? How does that conform with her view of a classless society?
The Prime Minister
Last year the Government spent more than £600 million in regional preferential assistance, £260 million of which went to the north, the north-west, Yorkshire and Humberside. Although unemployment is relatively high in the north, average weekly manual earnings there are the third highest in Great Britain and about equal to the British average.
Mr. Rathbone
May I press my right hon. Friend further on the Government's plans for legislation on the seizure of assets of drug pushers? Can she put a date to her promise, which was welcomed by the entire House?
The Prime Minister
The legislation could not be introduced before the next parliamentary Session. My right hon. and learned Friend Leon Brittanthe Home Secretary is working on its precise provisions.
Mr. Cartwright
Does the Prime Minister stand by her statement to the House last December that the cost of creating new jobs by capital investment in the infrastructure was between £35,000 and £50,000 each? Does she accept that that figure has been continually challenged by civil engineering contractors, who put the figure nearer to £10,000? In view of that wide discrepancy, will she produce the evidence to support her figures, or will she accept that they were a considerable exaggeration?
The Prime Minister
The cost varies according to the infrastructure or capital expenditure per job. It also varies according to whether it is provided by local government or by central Government. The hon. Gentleman will have seen the many questions and answers on this topic.
Mr. Favell
Has my right hon. Friend seen the result of the Gallup poll taken recently near Heathrow, which shows that 62 per cent.——[Interruption.]
Mr. Speaker
Order. This takes time.
Mr. Favell
—of the residents there were in favour of terminal 5, and 24 per cent. were against? Does that not show that it is much more sensible to expand the airport in the south-east, which the airlines wish to use and to which people wish to fly, rather than Stansted, which is to be only a charter flight airport, and whose expansion would remove jobs from the north?
The Prime Minister
My hon. Friend made his point effectively. I hope that my right hon. Friend Nicholas Ridleythe Secretary of State for Transport will make a statement on his decision after we return from the recess.
Q4. Mr. James Lamond
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 23 May.
The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Lamond
Is the Prime Minister's determination to build a classless society reinforced when she sees that the sum of money which she and her Government believe can support 30 families in unemployment benefit for a year can be spent on a birthday party by a young man of 21?
The Prime Minister
That is a highly artificial question. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will also address his mind to some of the costs of running the House.
[column 1154]Sir John Biggs-Davison
Having regard to the generous contribution of the British people to relief in Ethiopia, will my right hon. Friend examine reports that the Ethiopian dictatorship is levying heavy customs duty on British aid going into that country, and will the appropriate Minister make a statement at the earliest opportunity?
The Prime Minister
I shall pursue my hon. Friend's point. I am sure he agrees that it is right to continue to give aid to Ethiopia, although it is important that we ensure that it gets to those for whom it is intended.
GCHQ, Cheltenham
Q7. Mr. Dalyell
asked the Prime Minister what representations she has received from Civil Service trade unions about the directive she issued on 22 December 1983 about trade union membership in Government communications headquarters; and if she will make a statement.
The Prime Minister
Following representations from the Council of Civil Service Unions, I met its representatives and those of the Trades Union Congress on 1 and 23 February 1984.
The Council of Civil Service Unions has recently made representations about the position of 12 members of GCHQ who originally accepted the revised conditions of service and the management's offer announced on 25 January 1984 and accordingly resigned from union membership, but subsequently rejoined unions after the High Court judgment in July 1984. Those representations are still being considered, but it has been made clear to the unions that there will be no change in the Government's general policy on this matter.
Mr. Dalyell
So has not the time come for an amnesty?
The Prime Minister
If the hon. Gentleman was listening to my first answer, I said that there will be—[Interruption.] I am so delighted with the reference from the hon. Gentleman. There will be no change in the Government's policy.
Mr. Bill Walker
Does my right hon. Friend agree that the problems at Cheltenham have their roots in the fact that the trade union leaders in the Civil Service reneged on an unwritten agreement that Cheltenham would never be involved in industrial activity?
The Prime Minister
The action was taken, as my hon. Friend knows, because of the action taken by GCHQ when it went on strike and put very sensitive services at risk.
Mr. James Lamond
On a point of order Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker
Does it arise from questions?
Mr. Lamond
I am wondering whether the Prime Minister misunderstood my question——
Mr. Speaker
Order. That cannot be a point of order for me, because I do not know. The hon. Gentleman might ask that question, if he had an opportunity, when we return from the Whitsun recess.
Mr. Lamond
I am trying to clear up a misunderstanding.
Mr. Speaker
Order.
Mr. Lamond
rose——
Mr. Speaker
Order. The hon. Gentleman is a very experienced Chairman. He knows that it is not our practice [column 1155]to extend Question Time. There are very many right hon. and hon. Members who wish to speak in the subsequent debate.
Mr. Sheerman
rose——
Mr. Speaker
Is this a new point of order?
Mr. Sheerman
It is a fresh point of order, Mr. Speaker, but it follows up the point of order of my hon. Friend the Member for Oldham, Central and Royton (Mr. Lamond). Further to the remarks of the Prime Minister in answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Oldham Central and Royton, gross discourtesy——
[column 1156]Mr. Speaker
Order. I cannot be responsible questions that are asked or for any answers that whether from the Front Benches or from Benches.
Mr. Heffer
On a further point of order, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker
Is it concerned with question.
Mr. Heffer
It concerns a question which is Mr. Speaker, because——
Mr. Speaker
Order, I shall take the hon. Gentleman's point of order later.