PRIME MINISTER
Engagements
Q1. Mr. Marlow
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 28 February.
The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)
This morning I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet and had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House I shall be having further meetings later today.
Mr. Marlow
Will my right hon. Friend tell the teachers that, however deeply they may or may not feel, a strike would be damaging not only to our children's education and to the respect in which teachers are held in the classroom, but to the status of teachers in society, and for that very reason their eventual remuneration?
The Prime Minister
As I have said previously, we deplore the pursuit of a pay claim at the expense of the education of children. However strongly some teachers may feel, we do not think that anything can justify that action.
Mr. Flannery
Is it not a fact that by driving the teachers to this desperate measure in the same way as they did with the miners, the Government—by not paying enough money towards teachers' salaries—are the root cause of any curbing of children's education? The teachers want to continue teaching and to do their best. It is the Government's refusal to give teachers decent wages and conditions that is harming our children. Responsibility lies with the Government and not the teachers.
The Prime Minister
No, Sir. The hon. Gentleman will not be surprised to hear that I do not agree with him. Teachers' pay has kept pace with inflation since 1979.
Mr. John Browne
During my right hon. Friend's recent visit to the United States, did she note the enormous contribution to economic growth, new jobs, new technology and new revenues that has been generated by new and smaller businesses? Despite the valiant efforts of her Administration in Britain, does she not feel that planning and employment legislation still act to stifle new and smaller businesses? Will she please light a rocket to explode these shackles?
The Prime Minister
I agree with my hon. Friend that new jobs will come from new businesses and small businesses. That is where the vast majority of the 7 million new jobs in the United States over the past two years have come from. We are considering regulations with a view to diminishing their effect or repealing those which might prevent new businesses from starting up.
Mr. Steel
Notwithstanding the action that the Prime Minister is taking following the Channel 4 programme, may I ask her not to close her mind to the setting up of a [column 461]permanent committee of Privy Councillors to oversee the security services and to deal with complaints about possible abuses from members of the public?
The Prime Minister
No, Sir. That proposal has been put forward many times before and I do not think it a very useful one. I remind the right hon. Gentleman that since April 1980 the processes of interception have been subject to independent monitoring by senior members of the judiciary—first, Lord Diplock and, secondly, Lord Bridge of Harwich. They have been able to assure me in every one of their annual reports that they have satisfied themselves that warrants for interception have been applied for and issued in accordance with the procedures and criteria described in the White Paper on interception of communications, which was presented to the House in April 1980.
Q2. Mr. Hirst
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 28 February.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Hirst
Does my right hon. Friend agree, now that the majority of miners are working, with 61 coal faces, £120 million worth of equipment, £700 million of miners' pay and many jobs unnecessarily but permanently lost, that it can all be put down to one man and that the biggest enemy of the coal industry and coal miners is Arthur Scargill?
The Prime Minister
I agree that the strike has been highly damaging to the coal industry and to those whose future rests in that industry. It has lost customers and confidence, and the best way forward is for miners who are still on strike to take matters into their own hands and return to rebuild the industry which their leadership has shattered.
Mr. Howe Robertson
Has the Prime Minister seen today's report of the Select Committee on Social Services, which says that any fool can close a long-stay hospital, but that it takes time and trouble to do it properly? Does she agree that the cruellest fool of all is the one who does that sort of thing while saying that the National Health Service is safe in her hands?
The Prime Minister
The hon. Gentleman will be aware that there is a well-known procedure for the closure of hospitals. He will also be aware that the Labour party when in government closed more hospitals than we have closed, and that sometimes they are closed so that there may be better provision in newer hospitals. The hon. Gentleman will also be aware that under this Government the increase in expenditure on the NHS has reached 20 per cent. in real terms, after inflation has been taken into account.
Q3. Mr. Robert Atkins
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for 28 February.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Atkins
Does my right hon. Friend agree that the relative strength of the pound against the European currencies, especially as we are an oil producer, presents an ideal opportunity, in relation to the pound against the dollar, for us to be more competitive in our exports and therefore to do our GDP a power of good?
[column 462]The Prime Minister
One of the advantages of the strength of the dollar is that exporters have more chance to get more exports into the United States. Those who have never tackled that market before have a good opportunity to start to establish a position there, and then to keep it should the relative exchange values change.
Mr. Kinnock
Has the Prime Minister noted the concern expressed today by her friends on the Treasury and Civil Service Select Committee at the Government's policy, as they put it, of making the gas, electricity, water and other industries pay off debt and finance all future investment from current charges? How can she defend a policy that guarantees large and unnecessary increases in water, gas and electricity bills, both for ordinary families and for industries that are striving to compete?
The Prime Minister
After last year's drought we thought it right to make increased investment in the water industry. In fact, a 9 per cent. increase in investment is being made in that industry; and if we have increased investment, it must be paid for. The right hon. Gentleman has a nerve to complain about electricity prices, bearing in mind that under the Labour Government they went up 2 per cent. every six weeks, whereas under this Government they have gone up by only 2 per cent. in two years.
Mr. Kinnock
That is all very well, but again the right hon. Lady does not answer the question. Is she not aware that the policy she is operating means either substantial price increases so as to get investment, or lower price increases, with a consequent decline and decay in investment, with all the results of that on national economic prospects? Which does she want—higher prices so that we have some investment, or more stable prices so that we get economic decline?
The Prime Minister
Is the right hon. Gentleman suggesting that there can be increased investment without someone paying for it? If so, he is being absolutely ridiculous.
Mr. Kinnock
The right hon. Lady used the instance of water in the Thames Valley. She will have to explain her theories to the chairman of that authority, appointed by her, who said that he could get higher investment and efficiency with a 3 per cent. increase. She forced a 9 per cent. increase on him. Is that what she means by efficiency?
The Prime Minister
We have to look at the supply of water all over the country as a whole. Does he not?
Q4. Mr. Fallon
asked the Prime Minister whether she will list her official engagements for Thursday 28 February.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Fallon
Has my right hon. Friend had time to study the report in The Guardian that the Audit Commission has discovered that social services for the elderly could be improved by 20 per cent. without any increase in resources? Have not local authorities a duty to seek such savings?
The Prime Minister
Yes, I noted the report of the Audit Commission. It is very good evidence to support the view that we have been taking for some time that instead [column 463]of concentrating on increasing expenditure we should be concentrating on getting more services for the present expenditure. That is what the Audit Commission says can be done in the social services departments.
Mr. Wigley
On the question of water costs, is the Prime Minister aware that the Welsh water authority has said that the cost of water would come down in real terms in the coming year but that, as a result of her Government's action, the cost will increase by a third of 30 per cent. over the next three years? Will she now admit that the costs that people are facing are a direct result of this Government's policy?
The Prime Minister
We took a decision to increase, over the country as a whole, investment in water, reservoirs, pipes and everything else. I should have thought that that was in line with what I have often been urged to do—put extra resources into infrastructure. It was also necessary because of the drought. May I point out to the hon. Gentleman that, on average, water rates are about 20p a day. That is about the cost of a daily newspaper.
York
Q5. Mr. Gregory
asked the Prime Minister when she next intends to make an official visit to York.
The Prime Minister
I have at present no plans to do so.
Mr. Gregory
Is my right hon. Friend aware that the York electors will be saddened that the Prime Minister has not yet found time, with her very busy diary, to visit the medieval city of York? Nevertheless, when she does have that opportunity, I am sure that she will deplore the loss of rail revenue through the coal dispute and say that, as the Government have put a greater amount of money into rail investment in the last five years in real terms than any previous Government, the quickest way to continue a successful transport policy is to ensure that coal freight is returned to the railways from the roads.
The Prime Minister
I did indeed visit the excellent railway museum when I went to York, and very good I found it. I agree with my hon. Friend that the coal strike has damaged jobs in industries far beyond the coal industry itself. It has very much damaged the railwaymen's prospects of getting the freight they need and I fear that that will result in the loss of jobs by railwaymen because of the loss of coal freight.
Mr. Ewing
Does the Prime Minister realise that York played a very important part in the early history of the Post Office and that when a postman got tipped in York in the early days he did not have to pay income tax on it? How on earth does the Prime Minister now justify the decision to charge postmen income tax whether or not they receive tips? Does the Prime Minister tip her postman and, if she does, should the tip be taxed? If she does not, should tips be taxed?
The Prime Minister
The question of how and by how much tips are taxed is a matter for the Inland Revenue. It comes up from time to time in connection with any occupation in which tips are received, and the practice has not changed.
Q6. Mr. Hoyle
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 28 February.
[column 464]The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Hoyle
Will the Prime Minister take time today to look at some of her previous statements on the relationship of the pound to the dollar? For instance, does she recall saying on 6 April 1976 of the then Chancellor of the Exchequer when he rose to open his Budget
“last year the value of the pound was $2.37. When he rose to open it this year the value was down to $1.87 … That is the best barometer of the world's confidence in the” —[Official Report, 6 April 1976; Vol. 909, c. 284.]
Mr. Speaker
Order. I think that the hon. Gentleman has said enough.
The Prime Minister
I think that I answered that question yesterday, and since then the pound has improved against the dollar.
Mr. Greenway
Does my right hon. Friend agree that strikes by teachers every year are terribly damaging to children, especially those who do not have homes to go to during the day while the teachers are on strike, those preparing for examinations and all other children? Has not the time come for teachers to talk to employers to try to obtain an agreement that will last for two or three years so that schools are strike-free during that time?
The Prime Minister
An agreement that would last for two or three years would be very welcome. I agree with what my hon. Friend said about strike action. However strongly some teachers may feel, no strike action that damages children—especially those coming up to examination time—is justified. As my hon. Friend knows, teachers were offered arbitration but chose not to accept it.