Radio Interview for BBC (Nassau Commonwealth Summit)

David McNeil, BBC

(Inaudible)

Prime Minister

Absolutely minute. Two. First, to do all we can to see that there is a ban on the import of Krugerrands. Krugerrands really have virtually stopped coming. Nevertheless, the Commonwealth felt it was important to give a signal, and so we agreed to try to do that.

Secondly, because again they felt the psychology of doing just a little bit more is important, we are not going to spend taxpayers' money on the promotion of trade missions or trade fairs.

They felt it was important to give extra psychological signals, but that is a very very far cry from a ban on all imports and exports from South Africa which we were able to convince them would not work.

David McNeil, BBC

On this question of setting up the group of eminent persons, do you really think the South African Government would receive such a group? [end p1]

Prime Minister

I most earnestly hope so, because this is really a constructive suggestion in how can we help and how can we perhaps provide some sort of international framework for the next stage to take place.

Things are on the move in South Africa. Everyone knows they are on the move in South Africa. There is a feeling that the present system cannot last, quite apart from the fact that it must not last because it is apartheid, cannot last, that has got South Africa into some of her present economic difficulties. We are trying to be constructive. How best can we help to bring about the kind of discussion which will lead to a satisfactory settlement, where people of all backgrounds, colour, race and creed can take part in the government of South Africa. Construction, constructive effort the whole time, is our message.

David McNeil, BBC

The Commonwealth Accord speaks of a 6-months time span to see if concrete changes are going to take place. Who is going to decide this? Who is going to evaluate what is concrete progress?

Prime Minister

The groups of five or six countries that are going to send people to South Africa to make contact with the South African Government. I think what they are after is are there some signs that they are actively preparing for the next stage? I [end p2] think one has to recognise that the South African [Scil. government] has done a very great deal in the last three or four months that has not been done before, that maybe ought to have been done before. There is a lot more still to be done, but things are moving, and we wish to move them on so that we do get to a regime in South Africa which gives rights to people of all races, creeds, colours, to take part in the government of South Africa.

David McNeil, BBC

The Accord also says that if there is no progress, then some Commonwealth members will consider further measures—and they are quite tough measures being proposed; meaningful economic sanctions. Presumably, Britain will not go along with these?

Prime Minister

They know my view about economic sanctions and that is why it says “some countries will consider” these. I mean, one or two countries in the Commonwealth may consider one; one or two may consider two. At the present, I could not see us considering any of those economic sanctions. But I have said to them: “Look! When you start on one of these negotiations—or when the South African Government does—you really do not know quite what might come out of it and you really must not tie your hands at this stage,” and I think we have avoided doing that.

David McNeil, BBC

When we get to the stage of further sanctions, surely the [end p3] signal that you want to send will become meaningless because Britain—the important trading links will not be affected? In other words, what you have here, is it not an agreed statement but not an agreement?

Prime Minister

No, it is an agreement. We all agreed that, every single person tonight and certainly, if any one of us was writing that statement, obviously it would be different, according to the interests of each. But it is not bad that well over 40 countries have agreed to that statement.

It was of course hard negotiations, because some of them do believe economic sanctions would work. I do not and nor do others, and what is more, I cannot for the life of me see how it helps to create unemployment in Britain in order to create unemployment in South Africa. South Africa has got enough on her plate without having that to add to her other problems—and so have we!

David McNeil, BBC

Did you ever feel beseiged at any point, isolated from your fellow Commonwealth members?

Prime Minister

I really am so used to battling away that I just battled away for the things I believed in. Yes, it was hard going at times, it was hard going, but you know, you can usually sense what is going on and you usually sense when there are people in [end p4] the room who are quietly for you, but who are not in fact speaking out. I think that happened this time.

David McNeil, BBC

Thank you, Prime Minister.

Prime Minister

Thank you.