Don Durbridge
Waiting at 10 Downing Street, I am delighted to say we have, as a guest this morning, the Prime Minister, and I must say first off, Prime Minister, that you do us a signal honour by agreeing to be on Invicta Sound so early in our history, so thank you very much for that.
Prime Minister
Thank you, it is my pleasure.
Don Durbridge
Are you aware that I am about to congratulate you for a milestone in your career?
Prime Minister
No, I was not, until someone just reminded me this morning, and I had quite forgotten. [end p1]
Don Durbridge
It is twenty-five years ago today, the 8th of October 1959, that Mrs. Margaret Thatcher was first elected to Parliament.
Prime Minister
Sounds a long time, doesn't it?
Don Durbridge
Has it been an enjoyable time?
Prime Minister
Oh, it has been a fascinating time! After all, I have just been one of those very lucky people who is actually doing what she wants to do, and I have just taken it step by step, and I could not possibly have thought on that day, twenty-five years ago, that I would somehow be where I am now.
Don Durbridge
Was there a stage in your career where the aspiration to be Prime Minister took some sort of form?
Prime Minister
No, not really, because it seemed a kind of pinnacle that I just could not possibly reach. I think people take life in two different ways: some set out a very early ambition and try to plot the course of their lives towards it; I never did it that way. I just thought I was [end p2] tremendously lucky to go to university, do the things I wanted to do. I was fascinated in politics, so I did politics as just one of the things I was interested in, and then I took life as it came, just trying to do the best each day, each week, each year.
Don Durbridge
Well, life as it came, eventually brought you to Dartford in the County of Kent and the election hustings for the first time. What are your recollections of those days?
Prime Minister
They were marvellous days, because they had a marvellous band of workers in Dartford who really taught me all the companionship of politics, and what it is like working with people who are all working voluntarily because we believe the same thing. Yes, in those days it was a very very tough training ground. Erith was also part of the constituency. A lot of heavy industry there. I used to go round to the factories. I used to speak in meetings at factory gates. One learned to deal with repartee. But I think one learned above all that, really, how marvellous most people are.
I went round canvassing; very rarely would you get a nasty word ever said to you, even though people disagreed with you. Politics are much more generous than some people seem to think. [end p3]
Don Durbridge
Are they still so though, because, I mean, these days one gets the impression that there is a good deal more rancour than in the days of Dartford, where it was all rather gentlemanly, I think?
Prime Minister
I do not think so. I think if you look back at some of the debates in Parliament—and after all, you have only to look back at some of the cruel things that Disraeli said, that Canning said—you will find that the invective was every bit as much then in public debate. Look back to some of the things that Nye Bevan said. You will find that the invective, the public invective, was at that level. I honestly just do not get involved in that invective.
First, I think my job as a politician is to try always to put the constructive side, but I must say to you as a gentleman in the media, it is not always the constructive side that gets the news. It is always the invective and the destructive side, so it is not very encouraging sometimes. But, nevertheless, I just carry on trying to put the constructive side.
Don Durbridge
Well, you say you do not get involved in the invective but, of course, as the present holder of the office that Canning and Disraeli have held, you are very often on the receiving end of it. [end p4]
Prime Minister
Well, that is right!
Don Durbridge
How do you sort of react to that? I mean, these things must hurt, mustn't they?
Prime Minister
You react in two ways.
First, you say—you try to say to yourself: “Now, look! If you put yourself in the front line, you must expect to be shot at!” And then you say: “Well, I must nevertheless just carry on with what I am doing!”
But you are quite right, somethings are deeply deeply wounding and they do take over your mind for an hour or so, perhaps a little longer, after they have been said, until you just take yourself in hand and then say: “Now, look! You have got work to do and you must not be put off by these things. They are after all meant to wound and you must not let them succeed.”
Don Durbridge
On a personal level in elections. I do not mean the Party, but you personally. You have not suffered the wound of defeat since the fifties and Dartford. Did that wound strike deep? Do you still recall the bitterness of defeat? [end p5]
Prime Minister
No. It is not a bitterness of defeat. I had a very tough job. Of course, when you are young you are tremendously optimistic—well, you still are when you are old—you are tremendously optimistic and you are tremendously hopeful and you never lose that, and you always hope that if you are fighting a tough seat that you will do better than you do and that you will get the majority down even if you do not win. But you do know that you really are taking part in something which is a tremendous tradition of Britain—in parliamentary democracy, which is one person/one vote; nothing about class, nothing about people who are better off having more votes than people who are not; everyone equal; and that it is that which elects people; it is that which puts a government in power. And it is important that that system continues.
And so, really, you know you are part of it and so that is a privilege, even though you do not win.
Don Durbridge
I wonder if we might turn, Prime Minister, briefly, to a little dot on the map here in Kent which I know is a haven for you, Lamberhurst. [end p6]
Prime Minister
Yes. Haven is the right word. It is marvellous, because there one can go down and walk around the gardens and just look at nature and think, with the poet: “One clear morn is boon enough for being born!”
Don Durbridge
Did you acquire that property by accident or design and do you have intentions of putting down roots in Kent?
Prime Minister
Well, we rent that property. We used to own a house in Kent. Well, of course, we were in Farnborough. We spent the early years of our children in Farnborough, Kent, and then that was too far away from my constituency so we moved to London and then we rented quite a number of places in Kent and we rent the one where we are now. We also had a house in Kent, but it was just too big for us to carry on with, and we were not there enough. So we now have a flat in the house at Scotney Castle, and you say “haven”—it is absolutely right, because you must somehow have a retreat when you can just get away from things and perhaps think about the things which matter most of all.
Don Durbridge
Well, of course, you cannot get away from things as Prime Minister of Great Britain on a Monday morning of all times. The week, the start of a Conservative Party Conference. [end p7] You have been up for hours working, I know, before this interview.
Prime Minister
Yes, indeed!
Don Durbridge
May I just ask you: does a Prime Minister ever get that Monday morning feeling like the rest of us when you just like to turn over and go back to bed for an hour and not face the world just yet?
Prime Minister
No, because every day is a Monday in a way, because you are just at it every day. I say every day is a Monday. The alternative way of talking is there are not any Mondays, because you are never off duty. You know, week-ends you use to catch up. You have to catch up anything that you did not manage to do the previous week. You have to catch up with things in your constituency, and you also have to prepare the work for the coming week. So I do not know any day of the year when I do not work, but then I like working, so it is no trouble to me.
Don Durbridge
You obviously relish it! [end p8]
Prime Minister
Relish it, I think, is the word.
Don Durbridge
Do you relish this particular week? My final question, because this is the Conservative Party Conference week. You will be off to Conference. Do you approach this week with a certain amount of verve and vigour?
Prime Minister
I know that we are always among friends. I know that we are among friends who believe the same things as we do, and I know that we get a lot of inspiration from them, and I hope that they got a lot of encouragement and inspiration from us. So it is very much a two-way business, but I know that one misplaced word can bring down such coals of fire on one's head, so really, it is quite tricky.
Don Durbridge
There is a little trepidation there at the back all the time, is there?
Prime Minister
Oh always, but you know, you would not do your best unless there were a little trepidation, would you?
Don Durbridge
Of course not. Prime Minister, thank you very [end p9] much for sparing us the time this morning.
Prime Minister
Every good wish to everyone who is listening and every good wish to the future of the station.
Don Durbridge
Good morning to you. Thank you.
Prime Minister
Goodbye.
Don Durbridge
Bye bye.