Nick Peters
(irn) it's been, what, four years since you first raised the prospect of reform in the Common Market, four years later we have got nowhere. You must be very disappointed at the end of the summit?
Mrs. Thatcher
I'm disappointed, yes, because I thought at Stuttgart, it was really quite brilliantly chaired by Dr. Kohl and he actually got consideration of the very points, fundamental issues we need to consider. It's easier to get agreement to what you shall consider than it is to get agreement when you actually consider those things. I'm disappointed we didn't get further but we did set ourselves a herculean task.
N. Peters
But you didn't get anywhere, I mean there wasn't even an element of agreement on one single point—that must surely be very damaging to the Community's morale?
Mrs. Thatcher
But I don't think you quite perhaps have got the thing right, we agreed that none of us could give our agreement on any particular point until we got agreement on the whole. You see, there are some things that are very very difficult for some countries and we are among them and they're not prepared to agree on those unless they get some advantages which they need in another part of the package, so the whole thing is being looked at as a package and each of us have some things which is very much what we must have and for each of us it means giving up some things which are difficult, so it's not surprising that if you didn't get the lot you didn't get anything.
N. Peters
You said today that many countries here in Athens, were unprepared to face up to some very tough and unpleasant decisions: some countries have been saying that it was your personal inflexibility that is equally to blame for failure to agree here at athens—would you accept that?
Mrs. Thatcher
Well that's absolute nonsense, it was their utter refusal to face the problems of agricultural surplus problem … . products that really goes to the root of a great deal, their utter refusal some of them, to face up to a disciplined financial approach in the Community of the kind we have to have at home: now had you got even those two things which are in the interests of everyone and not of special interest to the United Kingdom, you would have got a very long way. No, they found it easier, although they know we have a problem with milk surpluses, they found it easier to say we must go on producing more and we must find the extra taxation for it—that is totally unacceptable to me. Yes, I am intransigent about it so I should be: if I agreed that it'd be an increase in co-responsibility levy coupled with a super levy, not an alternate. And a combination of that would be devastating to British farmers particularly if we had to take our production down while others say they must keep theirs. [end p1]
N. Peters
The fine words at Stuttgart, some delegations were saying here in Athens that they were not prepared to see Britain get a special system to make for fairer contributions in the future. They were just not prepared to do it, now surely that doesn't bode well for any future negotiations on the subject?
Mrs. Thatcher
No, it doesn't, but if they take that view they'll run out of money and when they run out of money they might take a different view. I remember one of my European political friends saying to me—‘Mrs. Thatcher, no-one talked about fairness and equity until you came into the Community’ to which my reply was ‘well, it's about time’.
N. Peters
What is the next step-will the Brussels summit which is scheduled in March, tackle this problem again?
Mrs. Thatcher
It will have to, whether it will succeed or not I don't know, if it doesn't then the day on which we run out of money is just three months nearer and if you run out of money on your existing policies you have to change your existing policies. I think it's very silly not to look with a degree of foresight and farsightedness and say we can see that coming, we should change things now. We tried and so did … . so did Chancellor Kohl and so did Mr. Lubbers in particular, so did Denmark and the four of us really tried very hard together to get fundamental changes, to get a fundamental reappraisal on agricultural surpluses so as not to produce them, to get a fundamental settlement on having a strict financial discipline, to get a fundamental budgetary settlement and to do this in a way which did not harm the interests of other countries outside the Community because it doesn't make sense just to pass your problems on to other countries particularly when many of them are such that they can retaliate against us because we also sell a lot of products to them. [end p2]
N. Peters
Despite your obvious disappointment at not reaching agreement here, when the Community does run out of money you won't exactly be displeased will you, because it will force some sort of agreement?
Mrs. Thatcher
I will think it's very silly not to have foreseen the foreseeable and to have taken action in time: there's still … . we can still take action in time if we deal with it effectively at the March summit. Let me make it perfectly clear, as I have done every since Stuttgart, there can be no question of Britain agreeing to an increase in finances for the Community unless the Community is going to spend its money as strictly, as efficiently and as well as we do in Britain and also unless we have a very much fairer and dare I say it, more equitable arrangements for sharing the burden of financing the Community. I told them it just isn't possible to say, “all right, Britain and Germany finance the whole of the Community; now without making any change in that arrangement, please, we'd like to have more” . It's not on.
N. Peters
Can I just switch to the Lebanon briefly—is there any chance that Britain will pull out her troops from the multinational force?
Mrs. Thatcher
I've heard that rumour, there's no truth in the rumour, as you know we meet regularly, the commanders on the multi-national force and the foreign ministers meet regularly on their multi-national force. I think all of us are deeply concerned about the increasing violence there: it doesn't help the process which we are there to help, which is the process under which President Gemayel can bring about a reconciliation of the various forces and factions in the Lebanon, so that he can the more effectively carry out a government of all of the different groups. He can't get reconciliation without the co-operation of Syria and we have to make certain that nothing is done to hinder that process of reconciliation and that of course is why I am very concerned at the moment.
N. Peters
Do you think the United States is hindering that search for reconciliation by its attitude to Syria?
Mrs. Thatcher
Well, I think that every group of soldiers in the field has a right to self defence, you couldn't put them in there unless they had that right. The question is when does self defence end and something else take over and I would not like to be the judge of that just at this particular moment.
N. Peters
Thank you very much.