Michael Brunson
Prime Minister, the conference did not do a number of things, it did not for example condemn US action on Grenada and it did not agree to a suggestion for a new world economic summit and it suggested that … that that was the result largely of your intervention.
Mrs. Thatcher
Well, both of those things were very wise. On Grenada we may have taken different views and there were widely differing views expressed but what was the point in putting in differences of views when the real thing is to concentrate on the future for Grenada. We want democracy to be restored in Grenada and together we decided we would see how we could set about it. Much wiser than spending time on regretting what happened and the other one was a world economic summit. You know, it is rather classic that when you don't know what to do, you call another conference or set up a new organisation. We've got very good international organisations in the IMF and the World Bank and GATT. They've changed really remarkably and adapted to different economic circumstances, they've a lot to do, some of the debt positions of various countries aren't sorted out. It's much, much better to strengthen their authority and their scope than to throw doubt upon their activities.
M. Brunson
Did you spend most of your time then saying ‘no’. Depressing the conference?
Mrs. Thatcher
Oh no, no, no, if you just said ‘no’ you wouldn't get anywhere. You put your own arguments very forcibly, other people put their arguments very forcibly but our arguments are sound arguments, that's why so often they prevailed
M. Brunson
Why were you not able to agree to the section in the … as we understand you reserved your position … on a section in the communique which condemned as fraudulent the recent referendum in South Africa? [end p1]
Mrs. Thatcher
I don't think ‘fraudulent’ and I don't think actually that word was used. I think it was a word called ‘champ’—shorter—that is not communique language at all and the point was made in the rest of the sentence.
M. Brunson
Do you not think though the sentence … .?
Mrs. Thatcher
Well, I also … . can I just say that I also put the view that a number of us know quite a lot of people in South Africa who are working very hard to get multiracial sport and they say to me—look, every time we take a step forward, it really doesn't help for you to beat us about the ears and I agree with them. Every time they take a step which goes in the direction in which we want them to go, we really should be encouraging them and not hitting them.
M. Brunson
One of the more important declarations I think you might agree is the Goa declaration calling for increased dialogue. What practical steps can you now take to fulfil the sort of words that were used in the Goa declaration.
Mrs. Thatcher
I think that by having far more political contact with both the Eastern European countries and with the Soviet Union, Malcolm Rifkind as you know went to Moscow in recent years, we do get the contact in the various disarmament conferences and so on. It's not quite enough, I think you need to talk longer. I am going to Hungary shortly. But I think it's time that we face to face talked these things through, both at official level because you know officials do a tremendous lot of this and are responsible for getting a lot more understanding of different viewpoints and at political levels.
M. Brunson
But perhaps instead of going to Hungary should you not be going to Moscow?
Mrs. Thatcher
No, I don't think so. I don't think that one should necessarily always stream to Moscow, I think that it would be very advisable if some of them came to the Western world a little bit more. They come to the United Nations but I think that Mr. Andropov has never set foot in a non-Communist country. [end p2]
M. Brunson
Are you inviting him to London?
Mrs. Thatcher
I'm not at the moment nor have I any plans to invite him to London but you don't just jump from saying you want more dialogue and contact, you can't just jump from that right up to a summit meeting, you've got really to work at it from the ground up. And that's what we shall do.
M. Brunson
And one of the ways that you might be doing that is to reply to his letter which I gather was couched in extreme terms.
Mrs. Thatcher
I didn't find anything surprising about his letter. I wouldn't know any letters that come from the Soviet Union that aren't couched in extreme terms. We are deploying Cruise, Germany is deploying Pershing, Italy is deploying Cruise, we're doing so because the Soviet Union has walked out of talks because she has completed her deployment of SS20s, she expected us to talk with her the whole time she was putting SS20s up at one a week and now walks out merely because we're starting to deploy the answer to SS20s, she is thoroughly unreasonable.
M. Brunson
And yet you were saying you want to continue the dialogue, it sounds from what you've said that it's going to be difficult to establish that dialogue.
Mrs. Thatcher
No, I don't think it's going to be difficult at all, I'd far rather put my view rather cogently face to face.
M. Brunson
And you'll be doing that by replying to Mr. Andropov?
Mrs. Thatcher
Well, not face to face but on paper.
M. Brunson
Thank you very much.