Speeches, etc.

Margaret Thatcher

General Election Press Conference

Document type: Speeches, interviews, etc.
Venue: Conservative Central Office, Smith Square, Westminster
Source: Conservative Party Archive: transcript
Editorial comments: 0930-1000.
Importance ranking: Major
Word count: 6611
Themes: Executive, Executive (appointments), Conservatism, Conservative Party (organization), Economic policy - theory and process, Secondary education, Employment, Industry, General Elections, Local government, Local government finance, Northern Ireland, Transport

Prime Minister

—Ladies and Gentlemen, as you can see we've got the Environment team this morning. We are proposing to concentrate on rates for the first part of the press conference. Tom King will start and then I'll ask Irwin Bellwin to come in. We are going to do housing another day and when we've completed rates we'll go to open questions as usual. Tom King.

Tom King

—Prime Minister, Ladies and Gentlemen. We announced at the launch of our manifesto our proposals specifically in relation to rating and expenditure of local authorities and also on the changes in structure of local government. Can I deal first of all with expenditure issues? We have had this at the heart of our concerns during the past four years because concern about the rating system, of course, is concentrated among people who have been very concerned about the burden of their rate bills and particularly the very rapid increases that they have suffered in recent years and we laid a particular emphasis not just on the domestic rate payer but also on the very serious impact on business and industry which has led in many cases to the closure of firms and loss of jobs and in others to the exodus of firms moving to lower rated areas with considerable disruption to business. Now, success in seeing a steadily reducing rate of inflation has helped to produce steadily reducing rates of increases on average in rate bills. But we are still very concerned indeed about the impact of certain high spending Labour authorities. It is, as you know, true that this year the average rate increase for all local authorities [end p1] in England this year and Wales would have been zero had it not been for eighteen overspending authorities, not a single one of which was a Conservative authority—eighteen non-Conservative authorities who have in fact pushed up their average significantly above zero. Now, our proposals are to bring relief to the hardest pressed group of ratepayers in this country. We shall identify the highest spending authorities. They will be required to submit their budgets to the Secretary of State. He will examine those budgets and will determine what is an appropriate rate level in those authorities and an appropriate expenditure level. That will be a selective process but it will bring relief to the very highest spending authorities and we will be given guidance on the sort of authorities that might be affected by those where the rate poundages are quite out of proportion to those which would be accepted as normal and reasonable in other areas of local government. As a reserve power we have also included in the manifesto the proposal to include a general scheme of limitation on rate increases to be used if this should be necessary. We would propose to include both schemes in our opening legislation so they would be within one Bill. Can I then move on to our proposals on changing the structure of local government? It is, I think, fairly widely recognised that the metropolitan county councils are a tier of local government that in fact are not essential; that they are in certain areas an unnecessary tier and can prove to be an extremely expensive tier. I would like to make clear that our approach to this has first of all been in relation to the structure of local government and its efficient working. I would have to say that the performance of those authorities in recent years has not been such as to argue strongly for their retention, if I may put it modestly, and for your convenience we have a chart which shows the way in which the rate [end p2] poundages in the metropolitan counties have increased out of all proportion to any current rate of inflation. You will see there the blue line indicates the authorities that were under Conservative control and then you see their performance when they moved to Labour control and you will see that the vertical line is the percentage increase in rate poundage over this period and I'm sorry that—I wonder if we've got that extension—have we got that extension because it wasn't possible to include the GLC and South Yorkshire on the normal chart and that, I think, shows what may be amusing in this room but has been a quite appalling burden to the ratepayers in those areas, who have faced quite intolerable burdens and we therefore propose to act and make clear that we will have the earliest consultations after the election to establish how quickly we can proceed on the abolition of the metropolitan counties. Obviously staff are involved, services are involved and we shall be anxious to see that in the issues of, for instance, Inner London education and the police and the metropolitan counties, which are, obviously, are services that must continue, that proper arrangements are made, and passenger transport as well. But those will be the matter now. There has been detailed study of the feasibility of this and I'm absolutely satisfied and the Government is satisfied of the practicability and the wisdom of the move and detailed arrangements will be taken in hand at the earliest dates. Can I just add one other point which is not directly under the rates and the environment field before a colleague, Lord Bellwin, who you know has a life-time experience in local government, comments as the Prime Minister has indicated, on the Labour Party proposals for local government and make certain comments on those. And that is simply in case there were any who missed it because construction is part of my responsibility. I know that you will be pleased to [end p3] see the figures for the construction industry. The very important improvement in construction shine [sic] a 6 per cent improvement in new construction, this is of course coming on the back of the quite excellent new house-building figures which show that total starts for the first quarter of 1983, 37 per cent up on the fourth quarter of 1982 and 23 per cent higher than the equivalent quarter of last year. Now house-building is only one part of construction and now the very encouraging news indeed on the construction side for all construction which shows a 6 per cent improvement on new construction and particularly significant is a 24 per cent improvement in new private industrial construction, and those who see in the business cycle that it is construction and house building that have traditionally lead the way, I certainly, on all the evidence available to me, see this as a very encouraging and positive side.

Prime Minister

—Thank you very much. Lord Bellwin

Lord Bellwin

—Well, I thought it might be interesting just to have a close look at some of the small words in the Labour manifesto as to what exactly they propose to do. I think the whole thing will repay a very careful study, but, perhaps this morning, Prime Minister, I might just mention just one or two of the points. First of all they say and I quote, it's on page 30, that ‘we shall give a power of general competence to all local authorities to carry out whatever activities are not expressly forbidden by statute’. The mind boggles. They go to say ‘we will also allow all but the most senior officers the right to become elected or co-opted members of the authority that employs them’. Again, the mind boggles still further. They talk about, they refer to the abolition of [end p4] supplementary rates, they will repeal our abolition of supplementary rates, they may, therefore, under a Labour government be re-imposed with all the dramas that that led to last time. They will enact, they say, legislation to abolish the penalty of personal surcharge on individual councillors. They will, and I quote again, they will proper allowances they say will be paid to councillors, they don't say what the proper allowances are or should be, you will know that they are at the present time—you will know about the special responsibility allowances which apply at the present, which mean that authorities may pay up to £4,000 a year—this they will presumably decide as to what the future levels will be. And I will simply say that it really will repay a very careful study.

Prime Minister

—Thank you Irwin. Now questions on environment. I stress that we are going to have a seperate conference on housing but of course they will answer if you choose. Yes, the Daily Mirror.

Question

(Legal penalties against high spending councils. Fixing rates.)

Tom King

—No, the position will be that we shall call for the budgets in advance of the rate fixing period because if—and this is the difference from the Scottish system, where as you know, the Secretary of State for Scotland under the original Labour legislation is unable to impose reductions in rates or grant and that's after the … has been started and the rates have been fixed. We shall do it so that the maximum economies have time to be made. [end p5] We shall do it before the rate fixing is done. We shall ask them to submit there preliminary budgets. We shall examine those and we shall indicate what we would think is an appropriate level of expenditure and rates and of course this won't be an arbitrary act in the sense that we shall pursue a separate dictat from the Department of the Environment and that it won't be subject to scrutiny. We shall have to lay it before Parliament and Parliament will have to approve it and when Parliament has approved that, that will be the valid rate and that any other rate that a local authority sought to impose would not be valid and couldn't be collected. People would be under no obligation to pay.

Question

(Unintelligible).

Tom King

—This is a matter for consideration but we would consider that we would lay an umbrella for the necessary authorities.

Prime Minister

—Thank you.

Question

If you are sure that the scheme for limiting high spenders has reasonable practicability, why do you need to legislate?

Tom King

—Well, because the approach that I have mentioned is a policy of examining in detail a limited number of individual authorities. If there were problems and it were clear that the [end p6] need to contain expenditure and the need to recognise the position of the ratepayer was not being sufficiently recognised widely across authorities. But it would not be possible to extend that scheme more widely, one would then go to a policy of a general level of rate increase limitation and then operate by a policy of exception, in which people would apply for deregation from that overall level and that is the way in which that could be operated.

Prime Minister

—Those at the back.

Question

Would you accept that you are advocating a major strengthening of central government against local government and is that not a weapon that could be turned against you by a future Labour Government?

Tom King

—No, I think the proposals that we have had to face … Because I'm very conscious, and anybody who holds my position is conscious, of the traditional relationship between central and local government which has rested throughout the years on the acceptance, and this is an acceptance by councils of all political persuasions in the past, that central government has a responsibility to set the overall expenditure levels and local authorities collectively accept the responsibility to meet those targets, and indeed, when I came into Government, they pointed out to me that they took pride in hitting those targets. Now there are certain authorities who have deliberately traduced that traditional relationship, have paid no heed to it whatsoever, have imposed [end p7] enormous burdens on their ratepayers and done great damage in the process to the relationship between central and local government. I have warned local government in conference after conference in the last four years, that the risk of the relationship between central and local government came from those who weren't prepared to operate the voluntary relationship that has existed in the past. And it is for those reasons that it is now necessary to take action, I hope only against a very limited number of authorities who for certain reasons and political reasons of their own are not prepared to abide by the previous rules.

Prime Minister

Thank you—yes.

Would you be proposing to abolish the metropolitan counties if they were Tory controlled?

Prime Minister

—Yes.

Tom King

—I—absolutely, I don't [sic: dealt?] first of all with the question of the structure and role and when you see the proposals that are put forward, I think you will see and you may be aware that it makes the point, if I may, both the other parties talk about a unitary system in their—a single tier-in their proposals. I think generally in local government and very widely and by people in the metropolitan boroughs and the London boroughs of all parties, our proposals are welcome. We're the only Party who has come out clearly and said we will abolish the met counties, but those in the borough and district councils level widely welcome that decision.

Prime Minister

—Thank you. [end p8]

Question

… the cities of the country can have their own local democracy?

Prime Minister

—Well, they have, the districts.

Question

…   . London one of the only major capitals which does not have its own government?

Tom King

—But it will, I mean it has first of all the London boroughs, each one of them are by any standards very substantial authorities indeed, and that's point one. Point two, there is already the London Boroughs Association, they are capable of cohesive action. They, actually, the London Boroughs Association themselves put forward a paper in which they said a London Boroughs Committee could meet and organise a most strategic issue where it was necessary for them to combine, but they shouldn't be given the additional discretionary powers which in the hands of irresponsible authorities have been the subject of such substantial expenditure.

Prime Minister

—Thank you. One, two, three. [end p9]

Question

While you were legislating would you take the opportunity to give private contractors the legal right to tender facilities … by local authorities?

Tom King

—Well, we've already on the direct labour organisations introduced the requirement that all substantial orders and a substantial amount of the small orders have to be put out to tender and on the construction side and in the other services, we shall be anxious in every possible way to encourage work being put out to competitive tender, to ensure that ratepayers are getting value for money.

Question

Given the argument towards doing away with the metropolitan councils does it have to be logical to have a …   . with local government, than to dispose of county councils altogether?

Tom King

—No, I don't …   . Well, can I just answer that one first, because I mean it may sound logical? The difference to draw is the fact that in the shire counties we're dealing with much larger areas. The centres would be very much more remote. If you go for an unitary authority you're likely to end up … in some areas closer to a shire county than a district council. And, as I myself actually represent district council [sic] and in a shire county, the distances involved and the remoteness of it I think would make it extremely difficult. Remember this, the metropolitan boroughs, and the outer London boroughs are education authorities, so are the shire counties—you're not dealing [end p10] like with like. District councils in the shire counties have never been education authorities and that is a primary role of of course of local government. The most important single function that it has.

Question

Why did Mr. King talk about taking general powers into consideration if necessary? If they had to use it does it mean everything is broken down and local authorities have to say the government is likely to contend this? (question not clear)

Tom King

—No, not at all, because in fact I would expect, under a general scheme of limitation on rate increases, that the vast majority of responsible authorities, provided that they are operating in an efficient way, provided that they are achieving the economies which are achievable in local government expenditure, that they would not actually find the rate limitation scheme an intolerable burden and actually would work within it. What it will enable is if necessary a wider net to be cast over the irresponsible authorities, over a wider coverage as I said to Julian Haviland a little earlier, the reason, the explanation that I gave.

Question

Will the new body proposed to set up after abolishing the GLC run London Transport, as with regards the rates in the wider London area … counties like Hertford, Essex and Surrey …? (unintelligible). [end p11]

Tom King

—Well, that's really a question on the transport side, but the intention is to bring together the wider transport role both of British Rail and of the other London transport services, so that you get a better coverage on the transport side.

Question

But since this is a post-GLC abolition is this envisaged that the ratepayers will be paying for the distance … (not clear)?

Tom King

—It's a matter of obviously where there is responsibility for services then there might be some responsibility for making a contribution to them.

Question

So, equally Hertfordshire or Surrey would be paying?

Tom King

—It depends how it came out.

Prime Minister

—That's not been decided. It depends how you do the grant, there obviously have to be grants to city centre transport. I'm sorry did I forget someone else in the middle?

Question

What was the priority, as regard to the manifesto, about the abolition?

Tom King

—I would expect the authorities to go by 1st April 1986.

Prime Minister

—That means there is quite a lot of drafting of the legislation. That's what we're after. It's a very very big piece of legislation to draft and will take quite a long time to get through. If we could get it through in the first session we would [end p12] be very pleased. Even when we've got it through there is a long time to go.

Tom King

—But as you know, Prime Minister, the probability is the rates proposals in the first session while the drafting of the abolition legislation is going forward with that in the second session.

Question

(Saving through the abolition of the metropolitan counties.)

Tom King

No, we believe the savings could be up to £100 million, as spread over the GLC and the metropolitan counties and the saving of up to 9,000 jobs.

Prime Minister

—You wanted to have a word, Irwin?

Lord Bellwin

—Well, only, in fact it should lead to exactly the opposite. There is at the moment duplication and this is one of the problems and the counties have over the period of time built up administrations and bureaucracies far beyond what was originally envisaged, so the proposals in fact will reduce that.

Question

If the abolition will not take place until 1986, why not leave it to the electorate …   . (question unintelligible)

Tom King

—Well, you're still left with your authorities, you're still left with the duplication that Lord Bellwin has just referred to. I think, I'm sure people may not be following [end p13] local government so closely. I don't know if people really do understand the very real feeling in local government and metropolitan areas that there is an unnecessary tier and that there is duplication and that there is waste. I certainly believe that, as I said it, certainly their activities haven't encouraged me to feel that that they had merits that I hadn't identified, but it is a structural change that I think is justified.

Prime Minister

—Thank you. Yes.

Question

For increasing rates in the Labour government councils, the Labour Party claims that their grants have been cut substantially. Do you agree with their answer?

Tom King

—The only reason why their grant would have been cut is because they insist on maintaining levels of expenditure way above those that equivalent authorities find necessary to maintain often better services than those authorities are providing, and this is something we have examined in more detail than probably any previous government and I am satisfied not because of everything that we identify in Marsham Street but because the evidence is there in the achievements of other comparable authorities who show what can be done.

Prime Minister

—Now, there are still a lot of questions unraised.

Question

(New elected council). [end p14]

Tom King

—The discretion that will remain with all local authorities, it remains, the being it exists, whether under our proposals or any others is that they have substantially budgets and they have discretion within those budgets, it's therefore unlikely that any individual project as such could be identified in that way. What you say, I think, is interesting, is that there is without doubt, I mean, I will just tell you one brief story, if I may Prime Minister, about Birmingham. I can remember well, and this story about the grant being cut, I can remember a deputation of twelve Labour MP's led by Mr. Hattersley and Denis Howell and various other Labour members of Parliament came to see me to say Birmingham was trying to do its best under Labour control but it was a million, it was going to be a million and above what we thought was the reasonable level at which they would start to lose grants, but there was absolutely nothing they could do and what could possibly be done to help. They then went away, because I'm afraid I wasn't terribly sympathetic to that particular approach, because I thought out of a budget which I forget, I think was over £200 million that there was scope for economies. What should then happen was that that authority changed control and the Conservative authority, new Conservative councillors' first act was to put the refuse collection out to competitive tender and some of you may remember what happened. Their own direct labour organisation, their own refuse collection team, came in and voluntarily suggested that out of a workforce of some 780 people that they could actually do it with 250 less people, that they could do it at a saving of £3½ million a year and that actually was one of the factors that, not only so far from saying we can't find any way to save another million, [end p15] they actually found a way of saving £3½ million. Birmingham were able last year to cut a rate by 12½ per cent and it was being done not by some cowboy which might, if it was a left-wing, might allege who had come in not knowing the facts and figures and put in some speculative quote, it was being done by their own labour force being forced to compete in the market.

Prime Minister

Mr. Bevins, may I just go on because a lot of you want to ask questions? I'm rather anxious to open it up because I think some people might want to ask other questions. Your other question—there was someone here on rates—yes those two, then we'll open it up.

Question

… On rates, Prime Minister, because you were closely involved … some time ago. Are you not … been unable to get rid of the injustice that exists between domestic ratepayers where you have a house being rated at the same … where there's probably no income coming in and another house where there's possibly three or four incomes? Is that not …   .?

The Prime Minister

Yes, one is but by this time rates have got an enormous burden, not only on the domestic ratepayer but on industry and commerce, and therefore we had to have a scheme which dealt with all three and it seemed that the first thing to reasonably [do?] was to limit the increases in rate so that business, commerce and the householder can plan with some confidence for the future. As you know there is a system of rate rebates on which we spend some £500 million a year so we do hope to help those of the domestic ratepayers who are least able to bear the rate burden. There's one more on rates here.

Question

The Secretary of State said that the Metropolitan Counties would be abolished in April 1986. Now as I remember the Metropolitan Counties next come up for election in 1985. Would [end p16] that mean extending its life for a year or having an election a year before the Authorities …   .?

The Rt Hon Tom King—Secretary of State for the Environment

One of those interesting issues for further resolution.

The Prime Minister

Yes, we will go open, you are not precluded from asking questions on rates, but other people might want to have a go as well. Mr. Bevins.

Question

Mr. James Mortimer, the Labour Party General Secretary, revealed this morning that the campaign against the Labour Party … Does Mrs. Thatcher have any comments on that?

The Prime Minister

None. Not … for me at all.

Question

Does she have any comments on Mr. Prior 's cry from the Conservative wilderness?

The Prime Minister

Which cry?

Question

… last night's speech …

The Prime Minister

Yes, which are you referring to?—because there was not a press release about it.

Question

He put out a speech through the P.A.

The Prime Minister

Have you got it? I think the bit you mean is the bit that was reported on radio this morning, which rendered if people are being asked to make sacrifices they must be able to see hope. Well, indeed I would say, and I'm sure James PriorJim would be the first to say too, to go down from inflation from 21 per cent to 4 per cent was not only a very great deal of hope but also a great deal of delivery of one of our promises. I think also he pointed out that all of those people on average earnings and above have had a net improvement in take-home pay. Their real take-home pay has gone up under the Conservative Government, in fact it went down by 8 per cent under the last Labour Government, it has gone up by 4 per cent with us. So those people in fact have had a genuine real increase, I think [end p17] also we're showing very very great advantages to many, many people who for the first time are able to buy their own home. I think if you look economically you will find many, many signs of success, you've got it in house building, and in construction, that you heard about this morning. You also have seen many, many other figures, the retail sales are 5 per cent higher in the three months to April than a year ago. National output was up in the first quarter of 1983, output per head in the whole economy rose by 4 per cent a year; productivity is up and the large number of new firms in electronics and what we're doing for research. These are all actual signs of hope. Some of them have already been realised and will go on improving, other have yet to bear fruit. When it comes to what most people tend to judge by, when they are talking about sacrifices and hope. The pensioners are better off than they were under Labour because they've got more spending power. Those on average earnings and above, indeed most people have more net take-home pay and there are more doctors and nurses in the National Health Service. I would say that those were very very real signs and I'm sure Jim would be the first to say the same.

Question

John Cole (BBC): Prime Minister, you haven't mentioned the unemployed, you don't think Mr. Prior might be referring to the number of unemployed …   .?

The Prime Minister

Yes, indeed we are trying as you know, we have got the biggest and most exciting training scheme for them, and I think you've probably seen quite a number of the young unemployed are making known their intention to vote for us and I think it is because they see very much more hope for the future with us, because we are tackling the fundamental problems of unemployment and we are giving help to produce [end p18] both new businesses and new products and we really are going for the jobs of the future. And I think the new training scheme is one that ought to have been done a long time ago. There are also I think a number of young people who are very pleased so we're tackling technical education, you know a lot of them just don't learn very well at school after fourteen because they don't always see a lot of point in what they are learning. And we often notice that if you go for some more vocational education all of sudden they see some purpose in what they are learning, purpose to their future jobs, and they become very very much faster learners. Now again we've got forty new lots of technical curricula in fourteen areas as a pilot scheme. We're going to be over-subscribed to that and they also see some point in what we're doing in getting computers in every school. This is all forward looking for the future, and I believe it will bear fruit, and indeed, as you already know, there are large numbers of electronics companies setting up in this country. So it is already bearing fruit. If some of the old jobs are going, which they will in any case, it is this Government that is seeing that some of the new jobs are coming here. One, two, three, four. White.

Question

(Michael) White, Guardian?: Thank you …   . When the controversy surrounding the candidate in Stockton South is resolved shortly, will you feel that you could then visit that constituency or any other in an area of concentrated unemployment?

The Prime Minister

The controversy I think was resolved yesterday. He put out a statement and I think you will note, and I think everyone here should note who heard what was said yesterday, that he has made it perfectly clear that he did not join the National Party. Someone said yesterday, I've forgotten the precise … [end p19]

The Party Chairman—The Rt Hon Cecil Parkinson

He was never a member of the National Party, that was quite untrue.

The Prime Minister

That's right, Mr. Finnegan has told the Press that he joined the National Front in 1974, was a member for fifteen months and left in late 1975. He has denied that he was ever a member of the National Party. You will have seen his statement—If you haven't, I have got a copy of it here. May I stress very strongly that there is room for people to change their minds in politics, there would be worth [sic] have General Elections if there weren't, and that many many people genuinely do change their minds, some who were Communists now find themselves in all parties. And it must be possible for a person who feels they have made a mistake in joining a party which they now find, as he said, ‘I realise that the policies of the National Front are totally wrong-minded and repugnant to all decent people’. It's a very good statement, the problem is resolved and Sir Keith Joseph is up there supporting him. He is now fully following Conservative policies and deeply regrets that he was ever a member of the National Front, whose policies he finds repugnant … No, I'm afraid my programme is already worked out and I'm afraid we can't change it, however much quite a number of candidates might like us to. Now I've dotted out one or two people.

Question

Can I ask Mr. King? The last time a Conservative Government restructured Local Government there were considerable redundancy bills for people who were then amicably … the reshuffled authorities. Would you say the feasibility studies which were done on abolishing the Metropolitan Councils show a loss of 9,000 jobs? What is your estimate of the redundancy … this time?

The Rt Hon Tom King—Secretary of State for the Environment

Well I talked about a possible saving of up to £100 million per annum. It could have an initial cost of between £50 and [end p20] £70 million, but that would be a first year cost, obviously not repeatable.

Question

Prime Minister, on the radio at the weekend you guaranteed a place in your next government to Mr. Tebbit. Would you do the same for Mr. Prior?

The Prime Minister

I am not going—I answered a question about Mr Prior yesterday. I can see what is going to happen, you are now going to go through every member of my Cabinet, I am not going to answer any more questions, I am going to win the Election first I hope, we're cautiously optimistic. It seems to me from the questions that you might share the same view of who's going to that I share [sic], and when, if you're right and I am right, I then will decide in the customary way, so please no further questions about that.

Question

(Mr. Waller): What I think a lot of people find interesting … is that while you claim the Government's responsibility for curing inflation, you say that there is nothing the Government can do about employment.

The Prime Minister

Oh, but I'm sorry, Mr. Waller, you are totally and utterly wrong. And, with all due respect, you really have been doing very selective listening during your presence at this press conference and very selective reading. Shall I give you some of my speeches and ask you to read them before you come and ask similar questions tomorrow morning? If it wouldn't be too much of a burden, because I have now made five and every single speech I deal with, I deal with our strategy for jobs and my worry is that the press might be now so familiar with it that they can almost repeat it with me. Clearly you have now been round with me. You know how to turn a deaf ear then.

Question

The real question is one of attitude, you didn't in fact mention the unemployed … [end p21]

The Prime Minister

But yes, I think you could look back at my speeches, you will find that, and you will find that one has said that repeatedly. I really must send you quite a batch of them, if you will read them.

Question

I will.

The Prime Minister

One moment, who hasn't asked?

Question

The … bombing in Belfast on Wednesday. People are still being killed in Belfast, you can't wander as freely around Belfast as you can around Port Stanley, and this report included indicators that the IRA are going to win a number of seats at the election. Wouldn't this indicate that IRA influence has actually increased in the last four years in Northern Ireland?

The Prime Minister

I think it is a cause for great concern that both in the Assembly and there they won some seats, and I think it will be a cause for concern if they do in the General Election, but, one is always hoping that they will give up the bullet for the ballot. That after all is the true equation, that there is no need ever to have a bullet in a system where in fact you can put forward your ideas by the ballot, and in a system that insists that all minorities have full rights and are treated properly and in accordance with full human rights. I cannot add to what I've previously said. We will continue to give full support to the Royal Ulster Constabulary, with the Armed Forces and do everything we can to combat terrorism. Yes, at the back.

Question

Mrs. Thatcher you say your election tour is set. Could you explain … visting safe Conservative seats later today, would you not wish that you were going to marginal [word missing] or marginal Darlington?

The Prime Minister

We will do, I think we are …

Question

North East … highly unemployed areas …

The Prime Minister

We're doing combinations of marginal seats [end p22] and of course we are dealing with, as you say, ‘safe’ Tory seats, we are doing combinations of marginal seats and Conservative seats and sometimes going into Labour heartlands. Shortly before the Election we in fact did many tours, as you know, I have been doing about a tour a fortnight and have been into many areas where I knew I could not go when it came to an election, because there just isn't time to go everywhere. So we quite deliberately went to a number of places where we knew we would not have time to take them during an election and that was part of the tactics that we have been employing for quite a time. At the back.

Question

(inaudible).

The Prime Minister

Well, so would I be astonished if it went over four million. After all we're making strenuous efforts to train young people for the jobs that are available, strenuous efforts to encourage small business, indeed I think that there are now 10,000 small businesses that have taken up some £300 million worth of help to start or to expand. We're giving enormous attention to helping to launch innovative products, as you know, there is a scheme for £180 million there and I think in the last budget another £180 million was advocated. All of this is to try to help the birth of new businesses and the birth of new business connected with new products. Because we mustn't fall into the trap of thinking its only new electronic products you want, you do get an enormous amount of trade both by excellent design of traditional products and of course enormous increases in jobs in services. And if you look at the past ten years, you'll find that a lot of the increases in jobs have come from increases in services, and there has of course over the last twenty years, been a decline of the number of people employed in manufacturing [end p23] as the new technology and automation has taken over many of the semi-skilled jobs. And therefore the skill of your labour has to go up market and you have to have a bigger proportion of skilled people if you are to get the jobs which are going to be available. And that's why we have got this very large training scheme and 100 computer centres up and down the country. And the number of young people who are going in there and doing extremely well, some of them have just gone in from off the streets and have an aptitude for this work is most encouraging. Yes.

Question

(inaudible).

The Prime Minister

Mr Prior has been to Dublin to resume talks, I have not resumed the bilateral talks that we have within the framework of the EEC. At the moment the Garret FitzgeraldTaoiseach and I meet at the European Summit, in due course of time, I expect that those talks will begin again, I cannot put a date on them. It is obviously better for all of us that we enjoy friendlier relations between the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland.

Question

Prime Minister, I have been fascinated and full of admiration about the way you have been handling this press conference.

The Prime Minister

Now what is coming next, Mr. Roth?

Question

What is coming next is that one wonders about one thing. Do you have any sympathy for those people who do not have your brains, your competence, your dynamism, if you like, your luck?

(End of tape.)