AREAS OF HIGH UNEMPLOYMENT
Q1. Mr. Ron Brown
asked the Prime Minister if she will visit the areas of high unemployment in order to explain her policies at a local level.
The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)
I have visited many areas of high unemployment and my plans for the immediate future include other such visits.
[column 772]Mr. Brown
I congratulate the Prime Minister on her smart outfit. Obviously I cannot say the same about her policies, which have created vast unemployment and inflation.
Mr. Speaker
Order. The hon. Gentleman must ask a question.
Mr. Brown
Does the Prime Minister appreciate that she is creating disaster for this country, particularly for working people? Does she also appreciate that the day of reckoning must come? While she may win votes in the House, the real fight will take place elsewhere. Indeed, during the winter the Labour Party will be organising opposition to the very policies in which she believes. Is that not one of our democratic rights?
The Prime Minister
I recognise that the hon. Gentleman feels deeply about unemployment and the industrial recession. There is a world recession and unemployment is rising elsewhere. In fact, the recession has bitten more deeply in the United States. Industrial production there has gone down more rapidly and deeply than in this country. At this stage of the cycle, industrial production has not gone down by as much as it did at a similar stage under the previous Labour Government, in the six months to May 1975.
Mr. David Steel
In the course of visits to areas of high unemployment during the recess, will the Prime Minister confirm that the control of the money supply is the beginning, the middle and the end of the Government's economic policy? If so, and if the money supply is not under control, what is left of her policy?
The Prime Minister
I do not think that the right hon. Gentleman can have read the speech by my right hon. Friend Sir Keith Josephthe Secretary of State for Industry entitled “Monetarism is not enough” .
Mr. Ian Lloyd
The Prime Minister will doubtless have seen the disturbingly self-confident assertion by the Japanese in The Times this morning to the effect that they intend to lead the West in the application of high technology by the end of the 1980s. Will she seize every opportunity to emphasise, not least where our unemployment is associated with a deliberate decision not to adapt to and adopt this technology, that this kind of [column 773]obstruction is self-defeating and that we must do everything in our power to follow the same course as the Japanese?
The Prime Minister
I accept that the Japanese are making immense strides, not only in research and development in technology, but in the speed with which they get it translated into industry and with which those working in industry accept the new equipment and operate it to the peak of efficiency. If we wish to compete, we must do the same.
Mr. Foot
As the steeply rising unemployment level is the worst problem facing the country and the Government, why has not the right hon. Lady and her Government brought before the House, before Parliament departs for the recess, fresh proposals to restore the £170 million cut that they made in the Manpower Services Commission budget? When will they carry out and bring before the House an expanded programme to deal with this problem?
Will the right hon. Lady now tell us, when the Government have failed to bring forward a programme before the departure of Parliament for the recess, how soon those proposals will be announced to the nation?
The Prime Minister
Already, about 324,000 people are affected by and benefit from special employment and training measures. My right hon. Friend James Priorthe Secretary of State for Employment has given an undertaking that if the youth opportunities programme is not sufficient it will be enlarged, so that every school leaver has the offer of a place by Easter 1981.
Mr. Foot
But what about the long-term unemployed? What about the cuts that the right hon. Lady's Government imposed on the programme of the Manpower Services Commission? What about the necessity of mounting a bigger programme to deal with the much heavier unemployment that we shall face? When will the Government bring forward those measures?
The Prime Minister
Dealing with long-term unemployment depends on getting British industry competitive. The right hon. Gentleman conspicuously failed to do that during his term of office in the previous Labour Government.
[column 774]Mr. Myles
Will my right hon. Friend take steps to sweep away even more of those stupid rules and regulations that inhibit small firms, especially in rural areas, from taking on unemployed people?
The Prime Minister
We shall certainly do our best to sweep away many of the remaining regulations. My right hon. and learned Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer did a good deal for small businesses in the last Budget, and our policy on enterprise zones will be of particular advantage to small businesses starting up in them. However, I do accept that many of the other controls and regulations should go.
Mr. Dewar
Does not the right hon. Lady accept that the Government have a duty to create jobs in high unemployment areas such as Scotland, or does her devotion to the principle of mobility of labour lead her to join those who advise the unemployed of Scotland that their best chance of getting a job is to move to areas such as the prosperous South-East?
The Prime Minister
If the hon. Gentleman had either listened to my speech during the censure debate or if he had looked at the amount of regional assistance that has been given, he would know that the question is superfluous. During that debate I made an announcement about Inmos and other firms. We are trying to do two things. First, we are trying to move investment to areas where there is a reservoir of skilled labour. Secondly, we are continuing to operate the employment transfer scheme, which the hon. Gentleman's Government also operated.
PRIME MINISTER
(Engagements)
Q2. Mr. Montgomery
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for 7 August.
The Prime Minister
This morning I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet. In addition to my duties in this House, I shall have further meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. Later this afternoon I shall attend the memorial service for Sir Seretse Khama at West-minster Abbey.
[column 775]Mr. Montgomery
Some time today, will my right hon. Friend urge her Ministers to take every possible opportunity to put across to the electorate the point that by its actions this week the Labour Party has shown that it is totally opposed to council house tenants being allowed to buy their own homes?
The Prime Minister
What my hon. Friend says is very true. Millions of people in this country will have the opportunity to buy their own council houses when the Housing Bill becomes law—a chance that they would never have had if the Labour Party had been in power.
Dr. Summerskill
Will the Prime Minister give thought to the fact that in Calderdale unemployment is rising more steeply than in the rest of Yorkshire and in the rest of the country? Will she assure my constituents that the textile, carpet, machine tool and confectionery industries will receive urgent help to stop them from further decline? Otherwise there will be litle manufacturing industry left in the area.
The Prime Minister
Textiles are already protected under the multi-fibre agreement, and we have about 400 quota agreements with several other countries under that agreement. There is a world recession, added to a number of other problems, and it is not possible for any Government to guarantee everyone a job. We shall have to work our way up steadily, and try to create new businesses and new industries using the latest technology, but no Government can do that alone.
Sir Nicholas Bonsor
While I congratulate my right hon. Friend on her decision to abolish the Clegg Commission, will she give her whole attention in the coming year to the terrible problem of the unacceptably high levels of wage settlements in the public sector?
The Prime Minister
Yes, we certainly have to give our attention to that. It is obvious that comparability as a principle has not worked well. Obviously there are times when various comparability awards amount to more than is available from the taxpayer to pay them. Comparability is only one factor in determining public sector pay awards. The real determining factor is what the [column 776]taxpayer can afford to pay. We shall conduct matters in that way in the future.
Mr. Urwin
Looking beyond 7 August, to the time when the right hon. Lady takes her standing ovation at the Conservative Party conference, will she then pause to reflect on the sheer misery that she has created in thousands of homes throughout the United Kingdom as a result of the additional unemployment caused by her Government's policies? Will she then give further thought to the requirement upon her Government to halt the flow of fugitives from depression from development areas such as the Northern region? If she cannot do that, will she then tender her resignation?
The Prime Minister
If there were an answer to unemployment in a free society it would have been found long since, and the right hon. Gentleman would not have had to experience 1.6 million people unemployed under his Government. May I remind him that while his right hon. Friend the Shadow Leader of the House was Secretary of State for Employment, unemployment rose by 90 per cent. in Swansea, by 103 per cent. in Aberdare, by 128 per cent. in Neath, by 145 per cent. in Llanelli, by 98 per cent. in Cardiff, and so on.
Mr. Michael Spicer
Will my right hon. Friend try to find time in her busy schedule to consider the question of the computerisation of the Inland Revenue? Bearing in mind that this is an extremely complex matter, will she, nevertheless, consider the fact that no other country with a viable computer company capable of doing the job would dream of giving it to a foreign company?
The Prime Minister
I understand both the complexities of the matter and the sensitivities of the House. We are still considering it, and we shall make an announcement as soon as we have reached a decision.
Beckton
Q3. Mr. Spearing
asked the Prime Minister if she will make an official visit to Beckton.
The Prime Minister
I have at present no plans to do so.
[column 777]Mr. Spearing
Is the right hon. Lady aware that in Beckton there are many families, with small children, living in tower blocks? Does she not agree that the sale of council houses by the GLC, or the forced sale of council houses by any borough council, must inevitably reduce the opportunity for such families to move out? Does the right hon. Lady think that this policy would have gained the approval of St. Francis of Assisi?
The Prime Minister
No, Sir. I do not accept the assumptions upon which the hon. Gentleman's question is built. To give people the opportunity to buy either the house in which they live or, if they have held the tenancy of a council house, another house, will bring joy to many, and it will introduce them to the ownership of property which Labour Members have experienced for many years. It will give them a chance to buy their own homes in small estates. The hon. Gentleman should reflect on the many Labour Members who have large estates.
PRIME MINISTER
(Engagements)
Q4. Mr. Heddle
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 7 August.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply which I gave earlier.
Mr. Heddle
Will my right hon. Friend consider extending the Government's practice of allowing private enterprise to compete for the provision of non-medical services in the National Health Service to local authorities? Does she agree that by so doing and by allowing local authorities to contract out such services as refuse disposal to private enterprise, she would be helping local authorities to reduce further the extravagance which still exists, particularly in Labour-controlled councils?
The Prime Minister
I agree with my hon. Friend. I hope that a number of public authorities and local authorities will consider contracting out more services to the private sector. It gives them a much greater degree of flexibility than they would have if they did it all through the public sector, and it can often be done more economically in the private sector.
[column 778]Mr. Foot
As the right hon. Lady's policies have been so disastrous in the fields of local government, employment, inflation and industrial policy, may we end on a happier note by congratulating the right hon. Lady on her Cabinet's decision about teachers' pay? Does she agree that it would have been extremely dishonourable if the Government had sought to abandon and breach an agreement that had been made and had repudiated an arbitration agreement? Will the right hon. Lady tell the House now what adjustment she will make in the rate support grant in order to enable the Cabinet decision to be properly carried into effect?
The Prime Minister
The answer to the last part of the right hon. Gentleman's question is “None.” All these claims have to be met within existing cash limits. If some people take out more for themselves, that will cause, as I have frequently warned, greater unemployment elsewhere.
With regard to that particular arbitration, as the right hon. Gentleman knows, it is about the only compulsory arbitration that there is in industrial relations. It can be set aside only—and the wording is very specific—if national economic circumstances “require” it—not “justify” it; not “advice” it; not “if there are clear and compelling reasons” . It is only if national economic circumstances “require” it. We felt that national economic circumstances did not require it. Had we taken the view that they did, it would have meant setting aside quite a number of other claims which have already been settled.
Mr. Foot
Why does the right hon. Lady not accept my congratulations with a more pleasant spirit? I was congratulating her Government on not taking dishonourable action. Will she repudiate the scandalous stories in the press that she wanted to take that dishonourable action but was turned down by the so-called “wets” in the Cabinet? Can she say when the next revolt is likely to take place and what is likely to be the subject matter?
The Prime Minister
I thought that the right hon. Gentleman was wanting to congratulate me. When did he do such a quick U-turn? It was pretty nifty footwork.