PRIME MINISTER
(Engagements)
Q1. Mr. Greville Janner
asked the Prime Minister whether she will list her official engagements for Thursday 31 July.
The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)
This morning I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet. In addition to my duties in this House, I shall be having further meetings with ministerial colleagues and others.
Mr. Janner
Has the right hon. Lady had the chance today to consider the dangerous effect on the freedom of the press of yesterday's House of Lords ruling in the case of British Steel Corporation v. Granada Television? Does she accept that, as no journalist can reveal his sources, all journalists are now in danger of imprisonment for contempt of court? Will she consider introducing legislation in the next Session to overrule this sad and sinister decision?
The Prime Minister
Like the hon. and learned Member, I have seen that judgment. None of us has yet seen the reasons for it, and I understand that the Law Commission is at present considering the law relating to civil remedies for breach of confidence. Its report had been expected at about the end of this year, but it will now have to reconsider the law in the light of the decision of the House of Lords in the Granada case when the Law Lords' reasons become available.
Sir Graham Page
Will my right hon. Friend find time today to send congratulations to the special patrol group of the police for its success against muggers in the Underground—436 arrests in six weeks? Will she also condemn the Left-wingers of Lambeth who are protesting against this by picketing Brixton police station?
The Prime Minister
I am very happy to do both those things in accordance with my right hon. Friend's wishes. The special patrol group is doing an excellent job in upholding the law and protecting the law-abiding citizens. It needs full support from all members of the public.
Mr. Whitehead
In view of the homilies we have recently heard from the [column 1726]Government Front Bench about unemployment being caused by people pricing themselves out of jobs, is today's announcement of an increase of over 50 per cent. for the Governor of the Bank of England pricing Sir Gordon Richardson out of a job and if not, why not?
The Prime Minister
The increase, which was reported in the newspapers this morning, and amounts to 55 per cent. in respect of the year from 1 July 1979 to 1980, followed six years in which there was no increase. Other groups during the year who, similarly, had had very little by way of increase in the years 1973 to 1978 have also done a considerable amount of catching up during this year. I must point out that for each of the past six years the Governor has voluntarily waived £6,000 of salary.
Mr. Higgins
Is the First Lord of the Treasury aware that at Ten o'clock this evening we shall be asked to vote thousands of millions of pounds for Civil and Defence Estimates, including hundreds of millions of pounds for increases in Civil Service pay, which the Select Committee on the Treasury has specifically asked should be debated? Even so, there is to be no opportunity for Back Benchers to debate any of these matters before they are asked to vote upon them. Does my right hon. Friend agree that that is completely unsatisfactory and ought not to happen again?
The Prime Minister
I have a good deal of sympathy with my right hon. Friend. Perhaps we might consider the matter further in respect of next year's Estimates. As my right hon. Friend will be the first to recognise, by custom and habit this subject is chosen by the Opposition. We certainly would not wish to take up their time in any way. Perhaps we might persuade it through the usual channels, because I believe that my right hon. Friend has a very serious point.
Q2. Mr. William Hamilton
asked the Prime Minister what are her official engagements for 31 July.
The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply which I have just given.
Mr. Hamilton
Will the right hon. Lady find time to read the remarks of the Governor of the Bank of England [column 1727]about workers, and the need for them to tighten their belts? As he has many notches in his belt to tighten, in future will she undertake not to seek to lay down a 9½ per cent. increase target for the public sector while approving an increase of 56 per cent. for one of the highest-paid people in the land?
The Prime Minister
The hon. Gentleman is not correct. The salary of the Governor of the Bank of England is determined by the Court of the Bank of England. The salary increase was determined by the non-executive members of the court.
Mr. Aitken
Will my right hon. Friend find time today to consider the industrial dispute at The Observer, where more than 1,000 employees are being made redundant as a result of militancy by 24 members of the National Graphical Association, who do not contribute to productivity but are trying to obtain a pay rate of more than £108 for one night's work? Does she agree that there could not be a more disgraceful example of destroying jobs by militancy?
The Prime Minister
That is a precise example of what Conservative Members have been saying. A few people are trying to make a great deal of money for themselves at the expense of the jobs of others. They will not succeed.
Mr. Anderson
Does the Prime Minister recall her heartless advice to the jobless people in Wales, both young and old, that they should travel to find jobs? Is she aware that her right hon. Friend the Secretary of State, in answer to a question, suggested that they should go to Ogmore, the heads of the valleys and Cardigan? Would it help the right hon. Lady if she contacted the managers of the jobcentres in those areas? Is she aware that she will find that very few jobs are available compared with the vast number of people looking for jobs? Will she be rather less heartless in future?
The Prime Minister
I answered that question last Tuesday, when I pointed out that my actual remarks were that frequently investment is made where skilled people need work but that there must be some mobility. I took action on Tuesday to try to send extra investment [column 1728]into Wales. I hope that that will help a little. It is evident from a report this week by the Cambridge economic policy review group that there has been a net migration of work into Wales. As James Callaghanthe Leader of the Opposition and Michael Footthe Shadow Leader of the House are two migrants, that has caused problems.
Mr. Anthony Grant
When my right hon. Friend has had an opportunity to consider fully the House of Lords ruling on the Granada case, will she bear in mind, before making any changes in the law, that the maintenance of the law is as important as the protection of a pretty cowardly sneak?
The Prime Minister
I agree that the law must be upheld. We shall consider whether the law needs to be changed. In the meantime, it must be upheld.
Mr. James Callaghan
When the Prime Minister referred to the net migration into Wales, was she aware—as I know that she was—that that took place during the past five years? Is she further aware that it is the result of the scheduling of certain areas in Central Wales, especially the rural areas, for development, which will be de-scheduled tomorrow, 1 August? Does she realise that the de-scheduling has been the subject of substantial protests by the chairman of the development area in Central Wales? The scheduling of the areas was achieved by the widespread use of sections 7 and 8 of the Industry Act 1972. Why are the Government not now prepared to continue with those policies which resulted in a net migration into Wales?
The Prime Minister
There was net migration into Wales between 1966 and 1978. The Cambridge economic policy review group points out that there has been net immigration into dynamic regions such as East Anglia, and attractive regions such as Wales and the South-West together with rising unemployment in those regions. I hope that the right hon. Gentleman will be the first to admit that we tried to move some jobs into Wales as a result of decisions taken last Tuesday.
Mr. Temple-Morris
Will my right hon. Friend take time today to congratulate the Secretary of State for Trade on producing lower air fares on the North Atlantic and Far Eastern routes? Is not [column 1729]that further proof that her policy of competition works? Will she seek to extend that in the European theatre?
The Prime Minister
My right hon. Friend John Nottthe Secretary of State and the Government are anxious to see more competition in air fares. That is the only means to bring down prices of air fares. Before we had private enterprise competition air fares were kept at a high level by the nationalised industries. People such as Freddie Laker have brought them down.
Liverpool
Q3. Mr. Alton
asked the Prime Minister if she will agree to the joint request of the Liverpool city council and the representatives of city council employees to meet her in order to discuss the problems facing the city of Liverpool.
The Prime Minister
No, Sir. My right hon. Friend Michael Heseltinethe Secretary of State for the Environment has replied to the leader of the city council. How housing resources within the city's allocation are to be used is a matter for the council to decide.
Mr. Alton
Does the Prime Minister realise that her reply will come as a great disappointment to people in Liverpool? Is she aware that the city council is presently contemplating sacking 430 employees in the maintenance division as a result of the reduction in this year's housing investment programme? Is she further aware that it will cost more in redundancy payments—some £3 million—to make those people unemployed than it will cost to continue their employment? Does not she think that it is a slap in the face and an insult to the people of Liverpool for her not to have visited that city since her election last year, and now to turn down a request from all three party leaders and trade union leaders on Merseyside to meet them?
The Prime Minister
I am delighted to be in such demand. Every hon. Member wants me to visit his constituency——
Mr. Skinner
Not every hon. Member.
The Prime Minister
The housing investment programme allocation this year [column 1730]is £47 million, which is an increased share of regional resources reflecting Liverpool's needs. The Government have also allocated £17.5 million under the urban programme for 1980–81, which is a real increase on last year. In addition, we are trying to make Speke an enterprise zone—I realise that it is not in the hon. Gentleman's constituency—which will help to create new employment.
Mr. Porter
Is my right hon. Friend aware that Liverpool has been under the control of the Liberal and/or Labour Parties for longer than some of us care to remember—which might have something to do with the city's present difficulties?
Mr. Heffer
Is the Prime Minister aware that I am surprised at her reply to the hon. Member for Liverpool, Edge Hill (Mr. Alton) because only today I received a letter from her Office saying that she is considering meeting a deputation from the Liverpool city council and its employees? Would she reconsider her reply, especially as my right hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition was prepared to, and did, meet a deputation from the Liverpool city council at a time when there were problems in that city? Is it not clear that with 107,000 unemployed on Merseyside, and 12,000 youngsters chasing 20 jobs, it is time for her to listen compassionately to the problems of people on Merseyside?
The Prime Minister
Almost every hon. Member wants to bring a deputation to see me. They should go to the Minister concerned—in this case, the Secretary of State for the Environment or the Secretary of State for Employment. The youth opportunities programme in Liverpool is providing about 6,000 opportunities for youngsters.
Mr. Parry
When the Prime Minister does meet the Liverpool city council leaders, will she congratulate the Liberals on carrying out Tory policies by cutting public spending in the poorest sections of Liverpool, by creating about 600 jobs in the rates department, and by refusing to fill vacancies, which increases unemployment on Merseyside?
The Prime Minister
No, Sir.
[column 1731]PRIME MINISTER
(Engagements)
Q4. Mr. Brotherton
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 31 July.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply which I gave earlier.
Mr. Brotherton
Will my right hon. Friend devote some time today to considering the plight of the fishing industry? Bearing in mind that in two World Wars it was from the fishing fleet that the vast majority of our minesweeping personnel was drawn, does not she agree that the survival of the fishing industry is not only a question of the survival of an industry but also one of national defence?
The Prime Minister
I do indeed pay tribute to the work of the fishermen, both in wartime and in peacetime. I agree with what my hon. Friend has said. The Government are now considering the industry's case for aid and will be making a further statement shortly.
Mr. Joseph Dean
rose——
Mr. Marlow
rose——
Mr. Speaker
Order. I have already received notice of two points of order at the end of statements. It is just as well to have the same rhythm each day.