Speeches, etc.

Margaret Thatcher

House of Commons PQs

Document type: Speeches, interviews, etc.
Venue: House of Commons
Source: Hansard HC [988/1227-34]
Editorial comments: 1515-1530.
Importance ranking: Major
Word count: 2339
Themes: Parliament, Union of UK nations, Defence (general), Defence (arms control), Private education, Employment, Industry, Privatized & state industries, Pay, Public spending & borrowing, Trade, European Union (general), Foreign policy (USSR & successor states), Local government
[column 1227]

PRIME MINISTER

(ENGAGEMENTS)

Q1. Mr. Cook

asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 15 July.

The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)

This morning I attended the thanksgiving service at St. Paul's Cathedral to mark the eightieth birthday of the Queen Mother. In addition to my duties in this House, I shall be having meetings with ministerial colleagues and others, including one with the Foreign Minister of Nigeria. This evening I hope to have an Audience of Her Majesty the Queen.

Mr. Cook

In the course of the Prime Minister's busy day, will she find five minutes to read the report to the Lothian health board saying that it must shed 300 nursing posts to stay within cash limits? Will she also read the report to the Glasgow housing committee saying that it cannot start any general needs housing for five years? Will she then return to the House and explain the perverse paradox of a Government who cannot find the money to pay nurses or build houses, but are about to announce the expenditure of more than £6 billion on the purchase of nuclear missiles?

The Prime Minister

The Government believe that the prime duty of Government is to secure the defence of the realm. We believe that freedom is worth preserving. The hon. Gentleman is inviting me to spend even more money. We could do that only by adding inflation on inflation, which would be disastrous; by adding to borrowing, which would increase interest rates; or by raising taxes, which are already too high.

Mr. Myles

During my right hon. Friend's busy schedule, will she find time to lend her support to the early implementation of the European sheepmeat agreement, which is so necessary to instil confidence in the autumn sheep sales?

The Prime Minister

We are doing all that we can to secure the early implementation of that agreement. Mr. Gundelach, the European Commissioner, is presently in Australia. He will be going to New Zealand this week to talk directly to the New Zealanders, for whom the future of that agreement is of paramount [column 1228]importance. They must be able to make the arrangements that suit their economy and their just case.

Mr. Freud

In view of the independent report on the progress of academically gifted children in the comprehensive sector, will the Prime Minister now announce the abandonment of the assisted places scheme? If she will not, will she say what further evidence she needs, and why the report published today has been sat upon for 12 months?

The Prime Minister

No, we shall not abandon that policy. I am amazed that anyone from the Liberal Benches should seek to deny parents, who are heavy taxpayers, some element of choice.

Mr. Maxwell-Hyslop

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind, in any ministerial discussions about nuclear weapons, that without them the Russian conventional forces could sweep through Europe far quicker than the United States could move conventional forces into Europe to protect us?

The Prime Minister

Yes, but our manifesto also spoke of our pledge to ensure the continuing effectiveness of Britain's nuclear deterrent—for the very reason that my hon. Friend mentioned.

ARMS CONTROL

Q2. Mr. Andrew F. Bennett

asked the Prime Minister if she will make a new approach for bringing about useful talks for the limitation of medium-range nuclear missiles in Europe.

The Prime Minister

The Government have supported the United States offer to the Russians to negotiate limitations on theatre nuclear forces. We shall be discussing with our NATO allies how to react to the recent Soviet response to this American offer.

Mr. Bennett

Will the Prime Minister agree that with world expenditure on armaments running at about $10 million per hour, it is essential that we do not re-escalate the world arms race, and that we take every opportunity to try to reduce world armaments, particularly by supporting such moves as Chancellor Schmidt 's initiative? Will she take initiatives to press for a nuclear-free Europe?

[column 1229]

The Prime Minister

The trouble is that during the time in which Russian expenditure on armaments has steadily and persistently increased, NATO expenditure on armaments has been falling. It is for that reason that President Carter led the demand for a steady increase in NATO expenditure of 3 per cent. per annum. For us to show weakness in the face of increasing Soviet expenditure would be to put the future of this country and our way of life in jeopardy, and that this Government will never do.

Mr. Eldon Griffiths

Is not the position that the Soviet Union already has a substantial superiority in theatre nuclear missiles, and that many of those missiles are already targeted on this country?

Will my right hon. Friend confirm that there can be no question of agreement unless the Soviets agree to stop their additional deployment of SS20 missiles in the European theatre?

The Prime Minister

I agree with my hon. Friend that the Warsaw Pact countries have great superiority in theatre nuclear forces—about 3:1. There are about 940 Soviet medium-range missiles and bombers, including 100 SS20s. We have a very much smaller force and it is nothing like as modernised. Those who seek to have a nuclear-free Europe would do well to direct their efforts in the first place to Soviet Russia.

Mr. James Callaghan

While acknowledging the superiority of the Soviet Union in terms of throw-weight—or whatever jargon is used in this matter—may I point out that the Prime Minister did not answer the question put by my hon. Friend the Member of Stockport, North (Mr. Bennett) about Chancellor Schmidt, who has put forward a series of proposals for handling the interval of three years before the cruise missiles arrive? Will the Prime Minister support the approach that has been made by Chancellor Schmidt, which would increase the safety not only of British citizens but of people on the Continent of Europe?

The Prime Minister

We and the Americans and the rest of the NATO allies offered to have talks with the Warsaw Pact countries on the future of theatre nuclear forces and reducing the numbers. That offer was rejected and [column 1230]Soviet Russia then set preconditions to talks. After Chancellor Schmidt's visit to Moscow those preconditions were removed and we are very pleased about that. Therefore, as I said in my initial reply:

“We shall be discussing with our NATO allies how to react to the recent Soviet response to this American offer.”

Mr. Callaghan

I am much obliged to the Prime Minister. Her answer is helpful on the matter of procedure. But I was asking the question—as I think my hon. Friend was—on the matter of substance. What is the British Government's position in relation to the proposals put forward, among others, by Chancellor Schmidt?

The Prime Minister

I have nothing to add to what I have already said. We believe in discussing these matters with our NATO allies, which is what I believe the right hon. Gentleman would have said had he been answering from this Dispatch Box.

Mr. Farr

Will my right hon. Friend confirm that the NATO cruise missiles that will be stationed in Britain will only ever be fired as a result of a joint decision by the British and United States Governments? If that is the case, will she assure the House that the British Government will be in possession of a master key in relation to that firing?

The Prime Minister

The position with cruise missiles is the same as the position with other American nuclear weapons which have been here for a very long period. It is a matter for joint decision, and there is nothing different from the position that has obtained over many years.

TRIDENT

Q3. Mr. Dalyell

asked the Prime Minister if she will publish a Green Paper on the case for and the case against acquiring the Trident missile.

The Prime Minister

As the House already knows, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence will be making a statement on this matter after Question Time today.

Mr. Dalyell

rose——

[column 1231]

Mr. Speaker

Order. I shall be prepared to call the hon. Gentleman on the statement—if he would prefer that—after he has heard what has been said.

Mr. Dalyell

The question is addressed to the Head of the Government. On such a momentous issue, is it right to put a fait accompli to the House of Commons?

The Prime Minister

I believe that on a matter of this kind we have to do just that, and fully explain our reasons for it in a paper to the House.

Mr. James Callaghan

A few moments ago the right hon. Lady said that she believes in discussing these matters with her allies. Is she not ready to have a discussion with the House of Commons on what is probably the most important matter to come before it for 12 years? Should not she be making the statement herself? Does not she realise that there ought to be a serious and informed debate on this issue before the House finally makes up its mind?

The Prime Minister

We had a debate on the nuclear deterrent in January. That was the first debate that we have had in this House on that subject that I remember. The right hon. Gentleman will remember his own reticence on Chevaline. [Interruption.] When it came to taking a decision on the replacement of Polaris, we thought it right to take it in this way and to announce it to the House. A paper will be published on the reasons for the decision, as promised by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence during that previous debate.

PRIME MINISTER

(ENGAGEMENTS)

Q4. Mr. Goodlad

asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for 15 July.

The Prime Minister

I refer my hon. Friend to the reply which I gave earlier.

Mr. Goodlad

Will my right hon. Friend find time today to study the serious implications of the very high salaries being paid to the chief executives of some county and district councils, many of whom have highly-paid deputies. Does she agree that the degree of [column 1232]moderation recently demonstrated by the chief executive of the West Midlands Council is but a very modest step in the right direction?

The Prime Minister

Yes, I hope that these chief executives will also follow the lead that I have recommended the House to follow in connection with our own salaries. Many people, in the West Midlands and elsewhere, are now agreeing to take reduced wage settlements in order to keep their industries competitive. They will feel very great resentment if the fruits of their efforts go to pay more top salaries to top people in town halls.

Mr. Ray Powell

Does the Prime Minister expect the 50,000 redundant workers or the 15,000 out-of-work steel-men, or even the hundreds of bankrupt business men—[Hon. Members: “Reading.” ] Of course I am reading. [Interruption.] Does the——

Mr. Speaker

Order. The hon. Gentleman would have been much wiser to say that he was making copious use of notes. He is not permitted to read his question. He must try to memorise it.

Mr. Powell

It is very difficult, Mr. Speaker, because the Tories have devastated Wales to such an extent that we have great difficulty in remembering all the things that they have done in 14 months. Does the Prime Minister expect to have the welcome that we normally afford to Prime Ministers or members of Governments when she comes to Wales on Saturday, having devastated the steel industry, created 50,000 redundant workers, and hit the unemployed, the sick and the homeless? [Interruption.] In view of all those things, does she really expect a welcome on Saturday? [Interruption.] Would it not be far better—[Interruption.]

Mr. Speaker

Order. I hope that the Prime Minister heard enough to answer.

The Prime Minister

I shall attempt to answer the bit that I heard. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman remembers that I once went to a Tory Party conference in Ebbw Vale, soon after the shutdown of some of the steelworks in Ebbw Vale had been announced by the previous Government. We realised that it was necessary to try to get the steel firms into a better competitive position. There is still a need to do so. I hope that when I go to Wales the [column 1233]people will realise that the Government have done a great deal to show their concern—[Interruption.]—for the inevitable redundancies by providing about £48 million for remedial measures to provide new jobs, and about £15 million further north in the case of Shotton.

Mr. Peyton

While I accept that the Prime Minister's replies are a great deal better than most of the questions deserve, will she reconsider a practice under [column 1234]which, monotonously, twice a week, week after week, 40 or 50 hon. Members inquire what she is doing on the day she answers Questions?

The Prime Minister

My job is to keep the answers in order. It is the job of Mr. Speaker and hon. Members to keep the questions in order. I do not think that I have transferred a single oral question, I am happy to take the bowling from wherever it comes.