Peter Snow
Did you realise when you arrived here last week that you would move this far in such a short time?
Prime Minister
Not really. I thought that we were going to have the main Rhodesia debate last Friday morning and to continue it today. I was very grateful really that we had two days in which to get to know everyone because when I came out the press was not very easy, the press here, and it is a bit tough when they start off like that when they have never seen you and do not know you, so we already had two days to get to know one another as people before we came on to Southern Rhodesia. I was also pleased that the opening speech went well and I think that helped.
Peter Snow
Who made the concessions to get this agreement?
Prime Minister
Well, I do not think it is a question of concessions. We all want to see Rhodesia solved. It helps not only Rhodesia, which obviously is extremely important because she is suffering bitterly; it also helps Zambia and Tanzania and Botswana because they too, their economies are grievously affected. Concessions, I think I felt this: had we gone ahead and recognised alone, we should have been totally alone and it would not have solved the problem because the war and the hostilities would have still gone on. What then would have happened? White people would have gone on leaving Rhodesia at the rate of 1,000 a month, as they are now. Black and white would have gone on being killed at the rate of 500 a week, mainly black. We should have put Bishop Muzorewa in a terrible position, then there would have been a demand that we should go in and help, and we could not possibly do that. This is why we had to move together, to get the support of the Front Line States to say, “look, if we get the constitution right in the same way as we gave you a constitution, then there is nothing for you to fight against” . And they agreed that. [end p1]
Peter Snow
How do you answer the charge that was made in London that you sold out the Rhodesians and their newly-elected black Prime Minister in order to appease the Commonwealth?
Prime Minister
Well, I will react just in the same way I have tried to indicate. I am anxious for the ballot to win in Rhodesia. I believe passionately in the ballot box over the bullet. My problem was that if we were ahead totally alone, how were we going to end the war? It could have been intensified. It could have been in an even worse position. America would not have come along with us; Europe would not. Nor would the African states. And the prize I was going for was to get the Commonwealth with us, America with us, so that we not only more of us recognised them together, which we put in the manifesto, you know, at the time of the Election, but the vital end of those hostilities would have been a chance to seize.
Peter Snow
So you have in a sense changed your mind since you became Prime Minister?
Prime Minister
No, I have not changed my mind. I have puzzled and puzzled and puzzled away how, what was the way to bring an end to the war and the only way in the end that one could think of was to try to get the consent of those from whose territories the hostilities are being conducted, and I think that perhaps that is a great achievement. And as you yourself remarked, it is astonishing that we managed to do it still with three days to go.
Peter Snow
What does British supervision of the elections mean? Does that mean that you might have to put British troops or police in there?
Prime Minister
Oh, no, no. It is administrative supervision. No, no. We are not thinking of putting troops in there. This again has been a problem all along. If we did recognise and leave Bishop Muzorewa alone and the hostilities increased and he then came to ask us for aid, what would we do? We have got troops in Germany, troops in Ireland, troops in Hong Kong, we could not have done it. We had to try to get a solution that would lead to peace. [end p2]
Peter Snow
But suppose the guerillas at some time after they assent to the agreement—if they do—change their minds and start fighting? Would not you then have to defend those that accepted the agreement?
Prime Minister
I think you will find that the Front Line states, being a party to this agreement, will bring very considerable pressure to bear on them. After all, when we got the kind of constitution which is wholly the kind which we gave to all the other members of the Commonwealth—which can be seen to be the kind—what is there to fight about? No-one is more aware than I am that a number of British Prime Ministers and previous Commonwealth Conferences have foundered on this. I can only tell you what they tell me: that there is a will and a resolve and the belief this time that there is a real chance of a kind that there has not been there before. They want to solve it and so do we.
Peter Snow
And Bishop Muzorewa—will he accept?
Prime Minister
I very much hope so. Because look, what there is, it is good news for Bishop Muzorewa. He has already got one person, one vote, and that was a tremendous step forward, and a majority black parliament, and a majority black administration; that was a tremendous step forward, and let us acknowledge it. And the Conference acknowledged it, that the constitution has changed, and we can build on that, and we can bring in the other part, which just, I hope so much, will achieve our goal.