NATIONAL ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT COUNCIL
Q1. Mr. Michael Latham
asked the Prime Minister when she expects next to take the chair of the National Economic Development Council.
The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)
No dates have yet been arranged.
Mr. Latham
When will the NEDC examine the shameful and dreadful figures for British productivity and national income compared with those of [column 229]France and Germany, which were so eloquently reported to the previous Labour Government by our new ambassador in Washington?
Mrs. Thatcher
I share my hon. Friend's interest in that dispatch from Sir Nicholas Henderson. We had been trying to put across the analysis for a considerable number of months. I agree with my hon. Friend that if we want a German and French standard of living we must have a German and French standard of work. I trust that later today my right hon. and learned Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer will have something to say about giving incentives for that.
Mr. Maclennan
Will the right hon. Lady take the opportunity of the NEDC meeting—and the earliest opportunity in the House as well—to expand on her remarks made at a press conference recently about the future of her plans for energy, and especially for alternative energy supplies and the nuclear programme? Is she aware that the House would like to hear that from her at an early date?
Mrs. Thatcher
I fear that if I did so it might take the rest of Question Time. If we are to keep up and expand the level of production in the world we must look for alternative sources of energy and vigorously pursue them.
Mr. Adley
Is my right hon. Friend aware that when she goes to the NEDC she will probably be advised by trade union representatives that all the workers in all the nationalised industries are opposed to whole or partial denationalisation? Is she aware that that is untrue and that many people in, for example, British Aerospace and British Airways look forward to hearing the Government's proposals? Will she therefore find some way of ascertaining not the views of the politically motivated trade union leaders but those of the work force?
Mrs. Thatcher
I am grateful for what my hon. Friend says. Like him, I have not found nationalisation popular among the electorate. In due course we shall present proposals for attempting to have less public sector ownership and more private sector ownership. When we do that we shall pay special attention to those who work in the industry and to giving [column 230]them a chance to purchase shares in the undertakings in which they work.
Mr. Anderson
As a combination of public expenditure cuts and stricter controls on cash limits is bound to lead to higher unemployment, especially in times of a growing world recession, will the right hon. Lady indicate what she considers to be an acceptable level of unemployment?
Mrs. Thatcher
The combination to which the hon. Gentleman referred would release more resources for the private sector. The private sector tends to be the productive sector. It is the sector from which future jobs will come.
PRIME MINISTER
(Engagements)
Q3. Mr. Geoffrey Robinson
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her public engagements for 12 June.
The Prime Minister
This morning I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet. Later I was present when Her Majesty the Queen welcomed the President of the Republic of Kenya. In addition to duties in this House, I shall have further meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. This evening I shall attend a dinner given by Her Majesty in honour of President Moi.
Mr. Robinson
That is obviously a very busy schedule, but may I ask the right hon. Lady whether, in the course of it, she can find a moment to seek confirmation from her right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Industry that the detailed and convincing case submitted to his Department today for a waiver of interest and a recapitalisation of the Government loan for the Meriden co-operative will be considered on its merits and not on the basis of any irrelevant political or ideological prejudices?
The Prime Minister
Sir Keith JosephMy right hon. Friend always considers things on their merits, and fairly and justly as well. The hon. Gentleman, if I understand his question correctly, is asking for interest to be waived on loans. That is a very serious thing to ask. Governments have to borrow money in order to lend it again. Governments cannot waive their interest, and I hope that when undertakings borrow money in these circumstances they [column 231]will deem it a matter of honour to meet the interest payments.
Mr. John Mackay
May I ask the Prime Minister whether, in the course, of her busy day, she has had a chance to read an article in The Daily Telegraph yesterday about Rhodesia, in which it was suggested that the European Commissioner for Development at the EEC had written a letter to Mr. Joshua Nkomo congratulating him and urging him on in his fight there? If I may quote from the article——
Mr. Speaker
Order. The hon. Member is probably not aware that hon. Members may not quote at Question Time.
Mr. Mackay
The letter is said to have continued by wishing Mr. Nkomo well in his gallant struggle. If my right hon. Friend has seen that article, would she like to comment on it?
The Prime Minister
It so happens that I saw the article and the quotation to which my hon. Friend refers. I took the view that it was most inappropriate for a member of the Commission to send a communication of that sort, and I have reason to think that other members of the Commission took the same view.
Mr. Heffer
In view of the fact that the right hon. Lady says that she and her right hon. Friends consider matters on their merits, will she tell the House what is the view of the Government concerning the National Enterprise Board, particularly as it has rescued a number of private enterprise companies which had failed and turned them into profitable organisations? These organisations would be lost to the nation if they went back to private enterprise.
The Prime Minister
The National Enterprise Board requires a great deal of taxpayers' money to continue its operations, and we have to consider the alternative use of taxpayers' money. We shall consider the future of that board on its merits. One of the merits is that it is taxpayers' money that is being used. We cannot get away from that.
Mr. Eldon Griffiths
Will my right hon. Friend take an opportunity in the course of today to consider a matter on which I imagine the whole House will wish to congratulate her, namely, the resounding [column 232]success of the Conservative Party in the European elections? Will she take an early opportunity to give to the country and to the European Parliament her own views as to how the new Europe will be able to formulate common policies in the vital fields of energy and foreign policy?
The Prime Minister
I agree with my hon. Friend that we wish all new Members of the European Parliament well. It is the first democratic international Parliament. It was a historic occasion. We could have wished that there had been a higher turnout. Energy, of course, will be one of the problems that the Parliament can tackle. I trust that our Members will put a forthright view on matters which are of particular interest to this country concerning other aspects of European policy.
Cannock Chase
Q4. Mr. Gwilym Roberts
asked the Prime Minister if she plans to visit the Cannock Chase district.
The Prime Minister
I have no plans to do so.
Mr. Roberts
Has the right hon. Lady studied the figures, showing that only 27 per cent. of the electorate in the Cannock Chase district voted in the recent EEC election? Does not this reflect the general disenchantment of the British people with the EEC? In this context, will she give the British people in the next year or two an opportunity of voting again on continued membership of the EEC?
The Prime Minister
No, Sir.
Tuc
Q5. Mr. Stoddart
asked the Prime Minister when last she met the Trades Union Congress.
The Prime Minister
I have not met the TUC but I met the general secretary on 31 May.
Mr. Stoddart
When the right hon. Lady meets the TUC, will she assure it that all the talk of confrontation was so much electioneering blather on her part and on the part of her right hon. and hon. Friends? Will she tell them that it is her [column 233]intention, and the intention of her Government, to co-operate with the trade unions and seek the co-operation of the TUC and the Government, which proved to be so good for this country over the past four or five years?
The Prime Minister
I must point out to the hon. Gentleman that I talked not about confrontation but about a proper balance between power and responsibility, which is vital to the future of democracy. I stand absolutely on those statements. I believe that we shall receive the co-operation of the trade union movement. Without the votes of many trade unionists we should never have had such a large majority.
Mr. Mellish
That is absolutely right.
Mr. McCrindle
Would not the laudable objective to which the hon. Member for Swindon (Mr. Stoddart) has just referred be considerably advanced if the trade union leaders were prepared to accept that they cannot and should not stand in the way of the pursuit of policies upon which the Government were returned only a few weeks ago?
The Prime Minister
I do not believe that the trade union leaders will stand in the way of those policies. This country needs to raise productivity. For that we need to get rid of some overmanning and some restrictive practices. I hope that when people have the incentive to do so they will get rid of them, and that when we have top management once again we shall be able to make advances which will enable this country to compete on full and equal terms with our European competitors.
Mr. Wigley
When the Prime Minister meets the TUC, will she, in view of the petrol shortages and the increasing price of petrol, give an assurance that her Government will in no circumstances allow any railway lines to be closed?
The Prime Minister
I could not possibly give any such assurance, and I doubt very much whether the hon. Member expected me to give an unqualified, positive answer. I point out to the hon. Gentleman that the petrol shortages now are very small compared with those that we endured in January.
Mr. Mike Thomas
When the right hon. Lady meets the TUC, will she [column 234]explain to it her use of the English language in parliamentary answers to me? How is it that, in the matter of the advanced gas-cooled reactor turbine generator orders, she is able to say of the Think Tank that she has not received guidance from it, she has not received information from it, yet was able suddenly to discover yesterday that she has received advice from it?
The Prime Minister
Because between the hon. Gentleman's first question and his second question on this matter I received advice from it.
Mr. Marlow
Will the Prime Minister agree that the turnout for the European election was disappointing and that to a certain extent the European Parliament is on probation? Does she further agree that if, in five years' time, at the next European election, we do not have a better turnout, showing a greater interest by the British people, we shall have to consider afresh our relationship with our friends in the European Community?
The Prime Minister
I must be as candid with my hon. Friend as I was with the hon. Member for Cannock (Mr. Roberts). The answer is “No” , but I think that the political parties may be able to increase the numbers voting at the next European election.
Mr. Thomas
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I hesitate to raise this matter on a point of order, but is it in order that the right hon. Lady should provide me with what I believe to be inaccurate information through the mode of both written and oral parliamentary answers?
Mr. Speaker
Order. The Prime Minister is responsible for her own answers. This is not the first time that hon. Members have not liked the answers which they have received.
Mr. Thomas
Further to that point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I am sure that your predecessor has not left the Chair deliberately. Is it not a matter of the greatest seriousness for the Chair and the House, not that I should receive a reply that I do not wish—of which I would not complain—but that I should receive an inaccurate reply?
Mr. Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bernard Weatherill)
Order. It is not for the Chair to give a direction on the kind of answers that Ministers give to questions.