Question
Would a future Conservative Government meet the cost of the staged awards to public services workers through the Standing Commission on Pay Comparability?
Mrs Thatcher
Now we have a statement on that—would you like to give it Geoffrey … . we have a carefully prepared statement.
Sir Geoffrey Howe
Well, the position is this, that the awards fall really into two halves, don't they? Where settlements have already been agreed, cash settlements already agreed, then of course those will be honoured but where cases have been referred to the Comparability Commission, they will be honoured as far as they fall within the money available. But, as Mr Healey has already pointed out, if they exceed that, then economies may have to be found. One's got to reconcile the conclusions of the Commission with the cash that is available.
Mrs Thatcher
It fits in with a reply I gave previously.
Questions
So you will meet them … . make economies.
Mrs Thatcher
Cash settlements already agreed will be honoured. Where they go to the Comparability Commission and the amount recommended is above the amount of money available, then if you are to meet them in full, economies may well have to be found elsewhere. It's exactly in line [interruptions] otherwise, you see, it means demanding more in tax and rates from people who are already paying too much.
Question
I see that, but does that mean you would honour those awards and then economise?
Mrs Thatcher
You have to do the two at the same time, otherwise you would go above the cash limit. You would have, in fact, if you honoured the award and keep the same number of people, well, I doubt whether you could keep the same number of people, but you may well have to look for economies elsewhere in a service or elsewhere in the economy. But if you look at what has been said, look very carefully, [end p1] you'll not find that it differs very much from what Healey has said in the House of Commons for the very reasons I indicated—you can only get more cash if you go above the cash limits from the hard, from the really struggling tax payer.
(2) BBC Radio News Report 1800 12 April 1979David Coss
Across Smith Square, Sir Geoffrey Howe, the Shadow Chancellor said said Mr. Callaghan was fantasising, that he'd like to cut income tax too with an incentive, but lacked the courage and the inclination and so was trying to frighten people. The Conservative manifesto says tax cuts would also he met by reducing public spending. That'd mean no help for firms that paid too high wages under the free bargaining which the Tories would allow. That could mean lost jobs as well as money, as Mrs. Thatcher admitted when she was questioned about the claim by the railwaymen's leader, Sidney Weighell, that the unions would be queuing up “to put their snouts into the through” under her policy.
Mrs. Thatcher
Every single extra penny for the public sector comes out of the people of this country. Now life is always a matter of alternatives, unless you're having increased prosperity then increase for one section comes out of the other. If you take more out in increasing wage rates that increase in wage rates must be counter-balanced on the other side by shedding of some jobs. The only alternative is to increase taxes and rates on an already heavily pressed population.
Coss
A clear warning to the Unions. The leaders of two million of whom in the Confederation of Engineering and shipbuilding Union, today bitterly opposed the Conservative proposals including those to reform the unions and to de-nationalise the shipbuilding and aircraft industries. And Mrs. Thatcher clearly didn't look forward to an easy time.
Mrs. Thatcher
I don't under-estimate the problem of getting everyone or reducing the amount of unemployment and getting more genuine jobs. What I say in fact is that I don't think our Labour Government will ever get more genuine jobs. They're creating artificial ones.