Speeches, etc.

Margaret Thatcher

TV Interview for CBS Morning News

Document type: Speeches, interviews, etc.
Venue: Blair House, Washington DC
Source: Thatcher Archive: transcript
Journalist: Lesley Stahl, CBS
Editorial comments: Broadcast live from 0730.
Importance ranking: Major
Word count: 1669
Themes: Commonwealth (Rhodesia-Zimbabwe), Conservatism, Economic policy - theory and process, Monetary policy, Energy, Taxation, Foreign policy (Africa), Foreign policy (International organizations), Foreign policy (Middle East), Foreign policy (USA), Foreign policy (USSR & successor states)

Morning Madam Prime Minister

Thank you for being with us this morning. Yesterday you had a lengthy meeting with President Carter, a private meeting in which we all assumed Iran was discussed. Publicly you made a very strong statement saying that you would fully support the United States if we went to the United Nations to ask for sanctions against Iran. But one gets the impression that you are in fact trying to discourage the President from taking that step—is that true?

Prime Minister

Not discourage Jimmy Carterhim in any way. It's a matter of his and his advisers' judgment as to if and when, and they really have to make that judgement bearing one thing in mind. Will it help to release the hostages to come home unharmed. Everything that he does must have that objective in mind. And d'you know, when you're dealing with a number of people in Iran, are you dealing with the KhomeiniAyatollah or are you dealing with the students. It's a very difficult human judgment to make. And he must be free to make it. But he must know that if he does we support him.

Q.

Well now I've been told that you aren't going to be reluctant to give the President advice. What is your opinion. D'you think that economic sanctions is something that will help our situation with the hostages.

A.

I think he's chosen the right way to go—namely to bring as much diplomatic pressure to bear as he possibly can. Now the point about sanctions of any kind with its blocking of assets, with its blocking of arms, with its blocking of trade or oil, is that everyone must do it because otherwise if just a few people do it then other countries merely take up the slack they supply the oil or the trade that is missing, or they take the oil or supply the goods that have hitherto been supplied by other countries.

Q.

Well, one assumes that our Government is in fact trying to line up international support. Is there any indication that you've seen that perhaps the Soviets would veto such a resolution in the United States if that's the route we decide on.

A.

Well I know that some people fear that. I would think that it's in the Soviet interest too to see that diplomatic relations are conducted properly and along civilised lines and civilised values with diplomats always having immunity and safe conduct. It's just as [end p1] important to them as it, is to the rest of the world. And I would be surprised therefore if they used the veto.

Q.

Well, you're speaking about a logical world. Aren't there some signs that they are balking at this. I know we've been dealing with them and trying to get them to join us.

A.

In politics you know full well that the world doesn't go round by logic, but it goes round by human emotions. I would hope very much that they would not use the veto and I would hope very much that they would say this is so important for the conduct of civilised relations between countries the world over that they too would allow the debate to go ahead.

Q.

There have been some times throughout this crisis where the Soviets have tried to gain influence in Iran. What is your general assessment of their behaviour in the past 44 days?

A.

Well of course the Soviets are experts at getting revolution from within. It is one of the techniques which they use. And when you get a revolution I think of the kind we've got now, partly an Islamic revolution of a particular Islamic kind but also allied with those who will cash in on revolution wherever it occurs and the danger is you know that the left, the Communist left, is very well organised and the danger is that once you get a revolutionary situation it's the extreme left that tends to prevail. That is and has been the danger in Iran, as well as the present acutely difficult circumstances.

Q.

Did the Soviets have any part d'you know in instigating this?

A.

I have no knowledge other than that you have seen. No. But you know as a general rule wherever there is trouble it is fermented by some of the Communists.

Q.

How convinced are you that the United States might eventually take some military action?

A.

Oh, I'm not convinced at all. I don't think they would think of that unless anything happened to the hostages, unless some of them were harmed. Then I think it would be a possibility. But all their work, all their efforts are bent towards getting the hostages home unharmed.

Q.

You have said that British diplomats have taken some part in negotiating in Iran. What exactly is the role? Are British diplomats acting as intermediaries in any way?

A.

We I think are acting as a channel of communication. We have a much smaller embassy there now than we had at the beginning. But all communication I think is done through us and we help as much as we possibly can. [end p2]

Q.

Who do you deal with? Which is the centre of power?

A.

Whoever we can, whoever we can. But as you know you have your Charge d'Affaires still in the Foreign Affairs Department in Iran. But all the messages come out through us.

Q.

Let me ask you something about the Shah. He said this morning on our programme or he had a spokesman say that he is considering that his stay in Panama is temporary, that he would eventually like to move on somewhere else and he has said in the past he would most like to live in Europe. Is there any possibility that he could seek and find asylum in Britain?

A.

Muhammad Reza PahlaviHe hasn't asked for asylum in Britain so we haven't really considered the situation.

Q.

Is it true that you discouraged him from asking for asylum as has been reported?

A.

Well not in my time, not in my time. But he just hasn't asked for asylum and I just hope that he will be perfectly all right now where he is because he looks a very sick man.

Q.

Do you think that the President was right in allowing him to come to this country at all?

A.

As a sick man, oh yes. Oh yes, it would have been inhuman to have done otherwise.

Q.

Let me ask you something about the economic problems that England is facing. There has been a new Treasury report saying that in 1980 your gross national product will decline, your energy problems will increase, you will have a huge budget deficit and inflation will continue to soar around 14 per cent. You came into power saying you were going solve these problems. What is going on?

A.

Shall we start on inflation. First when we came into power there was a Price Commission. Everyone had to put in applications for price increases. There were a tremendous number in the pipeline, actually about election time. A lot of them came through within about six weeks of the election, so we had a burst of price increases then. Secondly we took a positive decision to try to cut down on income tax, direct income tax, and put some of the income we heeded onto a sales tax. It gives you more incentive; if you have more money in your pocket you can choose how you spend it. So we did some transfer some from direct tax onto a sales tax. That unfortunately put the RPI up by between 3 and 4 per cent. The third thing that's hit us is the same thing that's hit everyone else—the enormous increase in oil prices. Tremendous. [end p3]

Q.

But you're not as dependent on foreign oil.

A.

Of course we do. We have our oil at world prices, and unless you do you will come into enormous problems if you have cut price oil at home. I know that you do, but you're coming through the oil crisis I think by the end of 1981. It's very difficult to run two different prices and anyway being part of the European Community we couldn't. There's a rule that we can't charge different prices at home from the price we charge to our partners. So inflation indeed has been and will continue to be a problem because of the oil crisis if for no other reason. The deficit—yes it is large. We've been running far too large a deficit for far too long and we really have tacked the reduction of public expenditure and we shall have to go on tackling that. All this will take time. It's like trying to make an ill patient better. The process is not a very happy one.

Q.

But you're losing popularity. Can a democratically elected official solve our inflation problems? The minute they start taking action they start …   . their survival in government.

A.

I think it's important now that we tackle some of the long term things in Britain. I think having had a government without a majority for some time is staggered from expedient to expedient to expedient and we now have a lot of deep-seated problems. People expect those to be tackled. They don't necessarily like the process but they expect it to be done and I'd have no standing at all if I didn't have the courage to tackle those things.

Q.

I'd like to ask you about Rhodesia very quickly. You have a cease-fire and an election coming up. Are you convinced that the settlement will stick.

A.

Look, we're through. With having got a cease-fire and got a settlement after 15 years. Without one it took us fifteen weeks. A tremendous effort, tremendous skill on the part of Lord Carrington. Tremendous cooperation from the Front Line states and the Patriotic Front and the Salisbury administration eventually signed. Wonderful. Will it stick? Yes I believe it will. That doesn't mean that it'll be trouble-free. Nothing is. But you must never get the troubles out of perspective. Again keep the objective in mind. Democratic elections, a democracy in Rhodesia, in the heart of central Africa. It'll make an enormous difference to the whole future of southern Africa. Let's wish it will.

Thank you.