PRIME MINISTER
(ENGAGEMENTS
Q1. Mr. Madden
asked the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for 6th June.
The Prime Minister (Mr. James Callaghan)
This morning I greeted the Prime Minister of India on his arrival for an official visit to this country. In addition to my duties in this House, I shall later today be having talks with Mr. Desai and tonight I shall be host at a dinner in his honour.
Mr. Madden
Since his return to this country, has the Prime Minister had an opportunity of looking at last week's issue of The Economist, which published a Tory plan for conflict and confrontation in public industry? Does he not agree that the Leader of the Opposition owes it to the public and to workers in the public sector to make clear whether she supports those bizarre proposals?
The Prime Minister
I am sure that the Opposition will make their position clear, but if they are drawing up battle plans for future industrial conflict I can only say that that is in contradistinction to what the Government are doing, namely, to try to promote industrial co-operation at all levels. That is why we are increasingly getting support from both sides of industry.
Mrs. Thatcher
If James Callaghanthe Prime Minister wishes to talk about party policy documents, will he say whether he endorses the Labour Party's programme, passed by his own Labour Party conference, to nationalise building, banking, insurance, land and 32 major private companies?
The Prime Minister
There seems to be—[An Hon. Member: “Answer ‘Yes’ or ‘No’.” ] I shall answer in my own way and in my own time. There seems to be an early outbreak of party skirmishing now that we have come back. I was trying to divert it into the more peaceful channels of indicating what the Government were doing to promote co-operation. Our programme will appear in due course and it will utterly satisfy the nation. I have no doubt about that.
Mrs. Thatcher
As usual, the Prime Minister is trying to avoid answering the [column 22]question. Will he now answer it? Does he endorse that document or not?
The Prime Minister
As the right hon. Lady well knows, I have no responsibility at this Dispatch Box for party documents, but I am very happy at any time to answer for Government policy. Government policy will be enunciated by me through the Cabinet at all times to the complete satisfaction of the right hon. Lady.
Mr. Watkinson
Will my right hon. Friend contact the Soviet authorities today and indicate to them the continued sense of outrage about the trial and sentence of Yuri Orlov? Will he also indicate that the possible further trials of dissidents Shcharansky and Ginsburg will be in clear breach of the Helsinki Final Act and can do nothing but undermine the support in the West for detente?
The Prime Minister
The NATO conference last week expressed its concern about human rights, the infringement of which is bound to jeopardise the improvement in detente. As my hon. Friend knows, I have expressed this view on behalf of the Government frequently and regularly. We are deeply concerned about the need for respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms. But I do not believe that a public approach by me to the Soviet Union today would help in that matter.
PRESIDENT HUSAK
Q2. Mr. Whitehead
asked the Prime Minister when he next intends to meet President Husak of Czechoslovakia.
The Prime Minister
I have no plans to meet President Husak of Czechoslovakia.
Mr. Whitehead
Is my right hon. Friend aware that the Czech civil rights movement has appealed directly to the Socialist International for help and that we all hope that all leading members of the Socialist International will make their views know, even if privately, to President Husak? Is my right hon. Friend heartened, as I am, that those who have to fight for the classic human freedoms recognise who their friends are and are not taken in by the kinds of smears against Socialists in this country that we [column 23]constantly got from the gang of four on the Conservative Benches?
The Prime Minister
I am aware that an approach has been made, with a direct appeal for support from Social Democrats who recently signed “A Hundred Years of Socialism in Czechoslovakia” , although I have not received it directly. If I do so, I shall be happy to render what assistance I can.
Mr. Blaker
Is the Prime Minister aware that his reluctance to criticise the Governments of the Soviet bloc in public contrasts very strikingly with his eagerness to criticise in public the Government of the United States?
The Prime Minister
That is an unusual inversion of matters. In fact, had the hon. Gentleman been present at the NATO conference he would have heard everything that I said about the Soviet Union on that occasion. It was widely reported.
Mr. Alexander W. Lyon
May we on this side congratulate the Prime Minister upon the words of sense about Africa at the NATO conference which defused the hysteria which was becoming endemic in the Western world? As a result, that has made a significant contribution to peace in that continent.
The Prime Minister
I am much obliged to my hon. Friend. There is a clear attitude by all the countries of the West about affairs in Africa, but no clear policy has yet evolved. That is something which we must continue to work on.
Mr. Rifkind
Does not the Prime Minister realise that, at a time when the United States, for the first time for some years, is becoming aware of the full responsibilities of the West to the African continent, it is unfortunate that it should be the British Prime Minister who appears to be the only Western leader trying to point the West in the opposite direction?
The Prime Minister
In fact, my views received very widespread support from the members of NATO. They were not designed to close anyone's eyes to the threats in Africa that arise from forces from other countries, either actual or threatened. What I was trying to do, and [column 24]what I hope the Opposition may do, is to realise that some of the issues involved there go far deeper than that of an East-West confrontation. They arise out of basic problems in Africa which we left behind and problems which the French and the Belgians left behind. I think that the Organisation of African Unity was quite right to establish the principle—I hope it can carry it out—that there should be no outside interference, that the countries themselves should settle their own disputes and that as far as possible they should settle them peacefully. That is what I was concerned to point out, and it received widespread support in the United States and elsewhere.
Mr. Heffer
Is my right hon. Friend aware that most of us on this side of the House will be absolutely delighted with the statement that he has made? Is he also aware that the CIA has played a very disreputable role with regard to Africa? Had the CIA not involved itself in Angola and had not Mr. Stockwell 's references—now published in a book—been exposed to the world, it is quite clear that the Cubans would not have been in Africa. Therefore, the basic responsibility for what has happened with regard to the Cubans in Africa is that of the CIA.
The Prime Minister
I am aware of these charges. In due course history will no doubt adjudicate upon them. At the moment, it should be in the interests of the whole of the world to avoid Africa becoming a scene of East-West collision leading to a third world war. It should be our policy not to encourage forces from both sides entering that continent again.
PRIME MINISTER
(ENGAGEMENTS)
Q3. Mr. Ovenden
asked the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for 6th June.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply which I gave earlier today to my hon. Friend the Member for Sowerby (Mr. Madden).
Mr. Ovenden
Will my right hon. Friend give some priority to considering what action the Government can take to avert an increase in building society mortgage rates? Does he accept that [column 25]such an increase would be very damaging to family budgets? Will the Government tell the building societies quite clearly that a rise in interest rates, at a time when they are holding very large reserves and when they are benefiting from tax cuts, would be quite unjustified and unacceptable?
The Prime Minister
I recognise that any increase in building society rates would be unacceptable and an additional burden on householders. Nevertheless, if the building societies themselves reach this conclusion I would not wish to stop them from doing it, although I would regret it. It seems to me that it is important that they should maintain their own balances properly and take whatever steps are necessary to achieve that. That is in line with the Government's policy of keeping all these matters of interest rates and other things, such as monetary supply, under control.
Mr. Tapsell
Among his official engagements today, will the Prime Minister give attention to the steady fall since Budget Day in the international value of the £ sterling and of our foreign exchange reserves? Will he tell us when the Government intend to announce the measures necessary to reverse these threatening trends?
The Prime Minister
The hon. Gentleman is an expert on City matters. He therefore knows that it would be quite improper for me to make any statement of a general nature about the position of sterling. What is quite clear is that the Government's policy is to ensure that by a combination of fiscal and monetary measures there will be an insurance, together with some continued moderation in wage claims and settlements, to enable us to maintain the level of inflation where it is now. I would like to see it come down, but I doubt whether that is likely. It will range between 7 per cent. and 8 per cent. But if we follow the policy that we intend to follow I see no reason why it should ever get back to double figures.
Mr. Dalyell
Since considerable sums of public money in relation to grant may be involved, can the Prime Minister in his own time and in his own way give his attention to the suspension of operations by the Cromarty Firth Development Company? Could a statement [column 26]perhaps be made tomorrow by a Government Minister?
The Prime Minister
My hon. Friend was kind enough to warn me that he would raise this matter. I have already apprised the Secretary of State for Scotland of his views and I am sure that he will take into account my hon. Friend's request.
Mr. Charles Morrison
Judging by the Prime Minister's earlier reply to his hon. Friend the Member for Sowerby (Mr. Madden), he is an avid reader of The Economist. Presumably, therefore, he thinks that the opinions of that magazine are worth paying attention to. Can he say what action he intends to take in the light of the recent opinion poll published by The Economist which showed that the vast majority of the British public was in favour of proportional representation?
The Prime Minister
I was very interested to read that. I look forward with interest to seeing whether it appears in the manifesto of the Conservative Party.
SPLOTT
Q4. Mr. Sever
asked the Prime Minister when he expects next to pay an official visit to Splott.
The Prime Minister
I did so on 29th May and will do so again on 16th June.
Mr. Sever
I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for that answer. When he next goes to this particularly important part of the world, will he take the opportunity to make a speech—which will doubtless be widely reported and read and heard by the people of Ladywood in Birmingham—pointing out the dilemma with which this country may well be faced in the event of the right hon. Lady the Leader of the Opposition being asked to form a Government and how the economic policies being pursued by the Government reflect the views of the British people in contrast to those proposed by the right hon. Lady?
The Prime Minister
I shall certainly do that. My constituents are well aware of the situation. On the whole, I do not think it is worth while spending too much time on the phantasmagoria that my hon. Friend conjures up.
[column 27]TUC
Q8. Mr. Robert Hughes
asked the Prime Minister when he last met the Trades Union Congress.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply which I gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds, West (Mr. Dean) on 25th May.
Mr. Hughes
I thank my right hon. Friend for that very helpful answer. Will he meet the TUC very soon and discuss with it the very serious problems of unemployment and the fact that the TUC believes that there ought to be a great increase in public expenditure in order to provide employment? Will he also take the opportunity to discuss with the TUC the ways in which local authorities have underspent on budgets for which money is already available, in order to ensure that they take up that money and provide more employment?
The Prime Minister
My hon. Friend will have heard the answers given this afternoon by the Secretary of State for Employment in which he showed that unemployment was steadily decreasing, although it is far too high. With regard to local authorities, that is a question of finding the revenue. That is why I am glad to see production going ahead, because that will produce the dividend we need to finance the local authorities.
Mr. David Steel
If the Prime Minister has a meeting soon with officials of the TUC, will he see whether they can use their good offices to help resolve the dispute which is delaying equipment to the Post Office and which in itself is having a serious effect on the installation of telephones in various parts of the country?
The Prime Minister
I shall draw that matter to the attention of the Secretary of State for Industry.
Mr. Ioan Evans
Is my right hon. Friend aware that deep concern is being expressed by many trade union leaders over the confrontation policy being put forward by the Conservative Party? When he meets TUC leaders, will he tell them that the answer is to work for the return of a Labour Government with a good working majority when the opportunity arises?
[column 28]The Prime Minister
I believe that the Opposition need to clarify the position a little, although that is not for me. I do not think that a policy of “If you have a weak union, bash it; if you have a strong union, surrender to it” is likely to commend itself to the British people.
Mr. Tebbit
When the Prime Minister next meets the TUC, will he discuss with it the reasons for the shortage of skilled labour which, despite his denial of it in January, it is now clear exists throughout the economy during a time when there are 1⅓ million unemployed? Could it be that people do not believe that it pays, in this country, to acquire skills and work hard any more?
The Prime Minister
There may be something in the hon. Gentleman's point. What we need to do is to intensify the training for skill. There is far more training for skill in this country today than there has ever been. In the past four years we have stepped it up. It does not look as if it is sufficient yet, and I am ready to consider proposals for increasing it further. As for rewards, certainly an incomes policy does not help differentials of that nature. We sometimes have to choose between varying evils, and overcoming inflation was the first priority of the Tories as well as of ourselves. The only difference is that we have been more successful.