CHINGFORD
Q1. Mr. Tebbit
asked the Prime Minister if he will pay an official visit to Chingford.
The Prime Minister (Mr. James Callaghan)
I have at present no plans to do so.
Mr. Tebbit
Is the Prime Minister aware that a very large number of policemen live in Chingford? [Hon. Members: “They need them.” ] No comment. If the right hon. Gentleman came to Chingford, he could explain to the policemen there why their claim is outside the limits of the social contract but it appears to be possible to pay £7,000 in cash to dockers not to work at all.
The Prime Minister
I am not surprised to hear that there are a number of policemen living in Chingford. Indeed, they live in most places. I had the opportunity of meeting the leaders of the police yesterday. I had nearly two hours with them during which time we discussed their pay claim. I told them that it would not be right to break the pay agreement, even if their case was a good one. Although I did not wish to misuse what the Leader of the Opposition said, I was glad to be able to say that it was her [column 1228]view, too—and therefore, I take it, the view of the House—that any claim should be settled within the limits of the pay agreement. On that basis I am prepared to go as far as possible. They produced one or two illustrations to me which I had examined, but I do not think that they really meet the limits which are laid down in this connection. They relied on the seamen's case, which is not really on all fours.
Mr. Kilroy -Silk
Will my right hon. Friend use the time that he now has available as a result of not going to Chingford to visit the workers sitting in at Plessey factories on Merseyside to assure them of his support in their fight to save their jobs and that he will commit himself to speeding up the welcome investigation that he announced last Thursday?
The Prime Minister
Only this morning I asked that the National Enterprise Board should make investigations into this matter as rapidly as possible, and I shall try to give it personal consideration.
Mrs. Thatcher
Will James Callaghanthe Prime Minister say whether he agreed with Merlyn Reesthe Home Secretary's advice to the police to join the TUC?
The Prime Minister
I gather that my right hon. Friend was a little misrepresented on that. He did not advise them to join the TUC, any more than I did yesterday. He was responding in a television interview to a question about negotiation. We all know how questions on television or, indeed, in other ways can sometimes mislead one into giving answers which are not quite the kind of answers—[Interruption.] If Opposition Members have never had that experience, all I can say is that they have a lot to learn. I can assure the right hon. Lady that my right hon. Friend was not advising the police to join the TUC. I am sure that they will want to take their own decision on that matter.
PRESIDENT CARTER (TALKS
Q2. Mr. Luce
asked the Prime Minister whether he will discuss defence matters with President Carter on his visit to Washington.
The Prime Minister
I shall have wideranging talks with President Carter on [column 1229]international and bilateral issues of mutual concern including defence and in particular the world economic situation. The House will wish to know that I have recently issued invitations to the Heads of State and Heads of Government of France, the United States, Canada, the Federal Republic of Germany, Italy and Japan to attend a summit meeting at No. 10 Downing Street, on 7th and 8th May and have received acceptances from them all. I hope to discuss arrangements for this meeting with President Carter and the Prime Minister of Canada on my forthcoming visit.
Mr. Luce
In view of the £8 billion defence cuts of the past three years and the recent warnings of Vice-President Mondale that allies must play their full part in the NATO Alliance, will the Prime Minister assure President Carter that Britain will take sufficient measures to make certain that we play our full part in the defence of the West?
The Prime Minister
There is no doubt in the minds of either NATO or the United States about these matters. As some of these cuts in expenditure resulted from our economic policy, perhaps I should go on to add what is already known, which is that the economic policies that the Government are following have received the full support of our allies.
Mr. Thorpe
Although I welcome the Prime Minister's invitations to a summit, may I ask whether the President of the European Commission, Mr. Roy Jenkins, has been invited and whether he has accepted? Secondly, since the Middle East, Cyprus and Rhodesia are three areas which are potential flashpoints where we have some influence, does he agree that the more closely we can co-operate with and co-ordinate our policies with the American Government, the better it will be for the future?
The Prime Minister
On the first question, I understand that the Council of Foreign Ministers is discussing this matter this afternoon. Therefore, I have no statement to make at this stage. On the second question, certainly in the case of all three issues that the right hon. Gentleman mentioned it is important to coordinate our policies with those of the [column 1230]United States, and, of course, with those of other countries in Europe. The summit will help us to do both.
Mr. Watkinson
When the Prime Minister next meets Mr. Carter, will he raise the question of Concorde? Will he bring to the American President's attention the fact that Concorde is our major national interest and that it is vital that it lands in New York in order to ensure the future viability of the project?
The Prime Minister
I would regard it as a very great misfortune if the finest aircraft in the world was not allowed to land at one of the world's finest cities. I have indicated to President Carter in private communications that on the whole we do not like getting a verdict without a prior trial. I shall make this position clear to the President, but it must be recognised that he has limitations on his field of action in this case. We must have regard to that. I have no desire to whip up a frenzy when there are limitations placed on all parties.
Mrs. Bain
When the Prime Minister is in Washington, will he tell President Carter that an independent Scotland will not recognise nuclear bases on her soil? Will he use the opportunity of his visit to Washington to go to the IMF and tell it that the people of Scotland will not accept a substantial reduction in their standard of living as a direct result of IMF policies?
The Prime Minister
I am not sure how far the hon. Lady is entitled to speak for an independent Scotland. But, if she wishes, I shall convey the views of the SNP to President Carter if there is a sufficient interstice in our talks. I will do so in order to let him know what the future holds. As far as the IMF is concerned, the hon. Lady will find that her view on this matter is, as on many other matters, a little jaundiced.
Mr. Whitehead
When the Prime Minister discusses defence matters with President Carter, will he explain to him the strong domestic pressure in this country for the purchase of the Nimrod second-generation surveillance aircraft in view of the trend in employment in design and production in the domestic aircraft industry?
[column 1231]The Prime Minister
It is becoming increasingly clear that the AWACS aircraft that is intended for NATO is unlikely to be financed, but it is time that a decision was reached. If other countries do not feel the same need for this kind of aircraft, it must be pointed out that Nimrod would supply a specific and particular British interest and would cover Europe and the Eastern Atlantic. We should not forgo this lead if other countries cannot agree on an aircraft with wider use that is not exclusively ours. I shall put this to President Carter and tell him that we cannot wait for a decision indefinitely.
[column 1231]Mr. Adley
Would the Prime Minister agree that British-American relations are the cornerstone of NATO, and that if President Carter does not positively use his good offices to facilitate the landing of Concorde at New York in accordance with the agreement between the British and United States Governments it will do inestimable harm to one of the most important relationships in the Western world?
The Prime Minister
Obviously, a decision to refuse to allow Concorde to land would have an adverse impact on the relationship. There are, however, far wider implications in the relationship than the situation on Concorde, and that is why I do not wish to be drawn into a public denouncement on such matters. These issues need careful examination, and I have invited President Carter 's full co-operation. I have pointed out to him that there is a united view in the House of Commons that Concorde should be allowed to land in New York. I shall continue to represent that very strongly to him.
SECRETARY OF STATE FOR ENERGY (SPEECH)
Q3. Mr. Gow
asked the Prime Minister whether he is satisfied that no breach of the principle of collective Cabinet responsibility took place in the speech of the Secretary of State for Energy at the Press Gallery luncheon on 14th February 1977.
The Prime Minister
Yes.
Mr. Gow
Does the Prime Minister recall that in that speech the Secretary of State advocated that the Labour [column 1232]Cabinet should be elected by Labour Back Benchers? Since the Government have now abandoned their major policies—the Dock Work Regulation Bill, the ship repairing section of the Aircraft and Shipbuilding Industries Bill, and the Community Land Act—would he not agree that if he and his colleagues came up for election now they would not be in their present positions?
The Prime Minister
The hon. Member is a relatively new Member of the House. Therefore, I should remind him of a little personal history. From 1951 steadily until 1964, and from 1970 until 1974, my colleagues in the Parliamentary Labour Party, for good or for ill, elected me to the Shadow Cabinet. I am very grateful to them, and I do not think that there is any reason to believe that there would be any change now. As regards the doctrine of collective responsibility, I thought that my right hon. Friend's speech would appeal to the hon. Gentleman because the whole theme concerned the elevation of the doctrine of parliamentary democracy and parliamentary supremacy in this House. If the hon. Member does not agree with that, he is not fit to be a Member of Parliament.
Mr. Skinner
Is the Prime Minister aware that the difficulty facing the Leader of the Opposition is not in recruiting people to the Shadow Cabinet but in managing to keep them once they are there? There are now six top Tories who refuse to settle in the Leader of the Opposition's political nest. Could my right hon. Friend offer any advice, or does he think that the right hon. Lady would be better advised to send a letter to Marjorie Proops?
The Prime Minister
I have noticed my hon. Friend's keen interest in the affairs of the Conservative Party, and I hope that that is not an indirect way of applying for a position himself.
Mr. Pardoe
Does the Prime Minister recognise that if the principles of the Secretary of State for Energy were extended to the election of the Leader of the Labour Party by the mass membership of the party there would be a difficulty, because the leader would then have to be elected by ghosts?
The Prime Minister
I am very reassured by the hon. Member's touching faith [column 1233]in election by the full membership, in view of what happened to him.
Mr. Baker
On the question of collective responsibility of the Cabinet, has the Prime Minister had the opportunity to discuss with his colleagues the statement he has made on three separate occasions in the last week that there will not be a General Election this year? Does he think that the British public would be wise to give as much weight to these denials as it gave to the denials he made in the summer of 1967 that there would be no devaluation that year?
The Prime Minister
I paid for those statements in full in November 1967. If the hon. Member ever has the misfortune to be Chancellor at a time when there is a fixed exchange rate, he might find that there are occasions when he has to make a stand on a position that he is not able to justify fully. That is one of the responsibilities of being Chancellor. On the question of a General Election, what I have indicated about trends moving in the right direction for the British economy continue to be borne out by the new announcement this week that the price of materials and of fuel rose by only ½ per cent. last month. Comparing this figure with that of a year ago, this holds out considerable hope for the slackening of inflation that we all want to see. It also holds out new hope for the prospect of a new wages agreement. A year ago these prices were going up by 4 per cent. a month, and last month the figure was only ½ per cent., so this is a very remarkable improvement. Irrespective of party interests, the hon. Member should welcome the fact that inflation is bound to slow down if this trend continues.