Prime Minister (Engagements)
Q1. Mr. Canavan
asked the Prime Minister what are his official engagements for 22nd February.
The Prime Minister (Mr. James Callaghan)
In addition to my duties in this House, I shall be holding meetings with ministerial colleagues and others, including one with the National Union of Mineworkers.
Mr. Canavan
Can my right hon. Friend find time today to consult the new Foreign Secretary about invitations to the Commonwealth Prime Ministers' Conference later this year? In view of the widespread revulsion felt about the atrocities attributed to President Amin of Uganda, and particularly recent reports of the brutal murders of two Cabinet Ministers and the Archbishop of Uganda, does my right hon. Friend agree that it would be absolutely repugnant to the vast majority of Commonwealth citizens to invite to this country such a ruthless barbarian, who has no respect for human rights or for human life itself?
The Prime Minister
I share my hon. Friend's revulsion at the reports that have come from Uganda. If they are true, there can be no words strong enough to condemn what has happened. There are problems in regard to the Commonwealth Prime Ministers' Conference, because although this country is the host, we do [column 1218]not issue invitations, and attendance is a matter for all members of the Commonwealth. I should be willing to take soundings on this matter, but, in view of the delicacy of the situation, I should not wish to go further than that this afternoon. In the meantime, I can inform the House that the Foreign Secretary has instructed our delegation at the United Nations Human Rights Commission to call for an investigation and to ask Uganda to agree to an investigation into what has transpired in that country.
Mrs. Thatcher
May I say how very much we agree with what James Callaghanthe Prime Minister has just said? We wish David Owenthe new Foreign Secretary well in his important responsibilities. As the Prime Minister has appointed to the post of Foreign Secretary one of the most committed Europeans in his Administration, does this mean that he will take the earliest opportunity to introduce into the House the Bill for direct elections to the European Parliament?
The Prime Minister
I note the right hon. Lady's tripartite question. I am grateful for what she said in the first part. On the question of direct elections, I have nothing to add to what has been said before. The Government are pressing on.
Mr. George Cunningham
Repugnant though it might be to have General Amin in this country, should we not consider whether the best thing that we could do for the people of Uganda, who should be our prime consideration, would be to assist in getting him out of Uganda and into this country for as long as possible, in the hope that something will happen while he is away?
The Prime Minister
Whatever our views about General Amin—and I certainly have mine—it is not for me to say at this Dispatch Box that we welcome armed coups of any kind, in whatever circumstances. There is far too much lawlessness in the world today, and it is not repaired by the encouragement of further lawlessness. I recall vividly that General Amin did not come to the Commonwealth Prime Ministers' Conference in Jamaica, and I do not think that we would regard it as a slight if he stayed away from London.
[column 1219]Mr. Michael Latham
Will any of the Prime Minister's meetings today be concerned with the fact that inflation is now running at 16.6 per cent. and rising, as opposed to the promised 8.4 per cent. and falling?
The Prime Minister
I shall not be discussing that matter today. I am glad to tell the hon. Gentleman and the House that a number of factors are beginning to turn in the direction of this country. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will join with me in welcoming them. Apart from the issue of inflation, I am sure that he is pleased to see that exports are rising, that sterling is more stable, that the rise in the money supply is decreasing rapidly, that interest rates are falling, and that industrial output has risen for the first time for over a year. I am glad to reassure the hon. Gentleman, he having pointed out that one factor is still not yet working properly, that there are at least six others that are.
TUC
Q2. Mr. Wrigglesworth
asked the Prime Minister when he last met the TUC.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Hemel Hempstead (Mr. Corbett) on 3rd February.
Mr. Wrigglesworth
Will my right hon. Friend comment on the latest unemployment figures? Will he discuss with the TUC the problems of youth unemployment, and especially the possibility of increasing Government-sponsored training, so that not a single vacancy is left in an apprentice school or technical college while the present levels of unemployment are maintained?
The Prime Minister
As my hon. Friend has no doubt noted, there is a welcome decline in the rate of unemployment for the past month. I do not want to try to make any deduction from that, any more than I do from any singlemonth figure. It is encouraging that there has been a decrease in the number of unemployed and a decrease in the amount of short-time working, which I always think is some sort of symbol in this context. [column 1220]
I think that youth unemployment is almost the most serious aspect. It involves a great many other countries. One of the issues that I want to take up during the forthcoming series of international discussions is whether it is possible for us to operate on a European basis, or even on a wider basis, to try to deal with this especially difficult problem.
Mr. Budgen
When the Prime Minister next meets the TUC will he draw to its attention the recent speech made by the Secretary of State for Trade, entitled “The Politics of Economic Interdependence” ? In particular, will he draw to its attention the passage in page 43, in which the right hon. Gentleman states:
“The source of economic growth is more likely to be the vigour of industrialists, the co-operation of labour forces than in the devices of government”?
The Prime Minister
My right hon. Friend's speech must be taken as a whole. I read it with very great care and attention. I thought it was an excellent speech. I hope that everyone else will read it with the same attention as the hon. Gentleman. As for the relationship between industry and Government, I think it is more generally accepted by industry than by the Conservative Party that what is needed is a proper, healthy inter-relationship between the two. I hope that one day the Conservative Party will catch up with industry on this matter.
Mr. Atkinson
Does my right hon. Friend agree that the biggest impediment preventing a satisfactory outcome to the discussions now taking place on phase 3 of the social contract is the current rate of price inflation? Does he agree that large sections of the TUC General Council are insisting on the return of free collective bargaining? Does it not therefore seem sensible that if the Government would prepare a scheme for price control and allow free collective wage bargaining to be conducted against price ceilings we might thereby formulate a method of overcoming the difficulties?
The Prime Minister
My hon. Friend is correct in saying that the increased level of prices is one of the present causes of discontent. The Government will take every realistic step that they can to control prices, where possible. I have pointed out to my hon. Friend on previous occasions the limitations on a [column 1221]country that is so dependent on imports as ours is in this matter.
I do not comment on any member of the General Council because I do not think that that is our business, particularly, but I say to those who are calling for a return to free collective bargaining that in my view that would be a return, this year, to free collective chaos, and I should not support that. I think it is right that there should be a certain modification and greater flexibility, in order to overcome differential problems and other matters of that sort in the next pay agreement that is reached, but we must have another pay agreement.
Mr. Tapsell
Will the Prime Minister draw to the attention of the TUC the fact that the longer-term economic advantages to be won from restraint on wages, on public expenditure and on the money supply are being largely nullified by the Government's failure to maintain the international value of sterling, which is the prime cause of the current high rates of inflation?
The Prime Minister
No, the TUC would not take that as being a fair representation of the Government's position. In any case, as the hon. Gentleman knows, sterling is being extremely stable at present and I trust it will remain so.
PARLIAMENTARY PRIVATE SECRETARIES
Q3. Mr. Aitken
asked the Prime Minister if he will make a statement on the rules governing the rôle of Parliamentary Private Secretaries to Ministers.
The Prime Minister
Parliamentary Private Secretaries are appointed by Ministers to assist them with their parliamentary and political activities. They are expected to act generally in accordance with their special position in relation to the Government.
Mr. Aitken
Does the Prime Minister recall that following the last occasion when he dismissed a batch of wayward Parliamentary Private Secretaries his hon. Friend the Member for Bethnal Green and Bow (Mr. Mikardo) publicly described him as behaving like a stupid dictator? To avoid any repetition of such comradely language, will the right [column 1222]hon. Gentleman care to clarify his attitude towards those of his hon. Friends who in tonight's important Division on an issue of great constitutional principle may be intending to vote according to the dictates of their own patrotic consciences?
The Prime Minister
I can assure the hon. Gentleman that I should sooner have the insults of my hon. Friend the Member for Bethnal Green and Bow (Mr. Mikardo) than his compliments. As for Parliamentary Private Secretaries, I have nothing to add to what I have said.
Mr. Kinnock
Might it not be a good idea if my right hon. Friend obtained some compliments from my hon. Friend the Member for Bethnal Green and Bow (Mr. Mikardo) before giving a judgment on the matter? Will my right hon. Friend acknowledge that it is better for Parliamentary Private Secretaries to exercise influence on the Government than for people such as the hon. Member for Thanet, East (Mr. Aitken) and his predecessors to exercise the sort of influence that they have had?
Will my right hon. Friend seriously reconsider the whole position of Parliamentary Private Secretaries? I acknowledge the need that busy Ministers have for particular kinds of assistance, but should we not stop this silly throw-over from the public school fagging system and this unwanted extension of Prime Ministerial patronage?
The Prime Minister
No.
Mr. Tebbit
Does the right hon. Gentleman think that the offence of a Parliamentary Private Secretary in voting against the Government, sometimes on a quite minor matter, is any greater than that of the Secretary of State for Energy when he claims to speak at a Press Gallery lunch as a private Member of Parliament and repudiates the doctrine of collective responsibility when discussing constitutional reform?
The Prime Minister
I have nothing to add to my original answer.
HONOURS LISTS
Q4. Mr. Ridley
asked the Prime Minister if he will list those persons whom he will consult in drawing up Honours Lists.
[column 1223]The Prime Minister
There is no fixed list of people whom I consult about the drawing up of Honours Lists. It is open to anyone to suggest to me the award of an honour in the half-yearly list, which I recommend to Her Majesty the Queen. I receive proposals for each list from my ministerial colleagues, and I also receive directly a large number of proposals, including many from hon. Members of this House. Each suggestion is carefully considered, and I have available to me for this purpose the advice of my ministerial colleagues and all the Departments of State, as well as eminent authorities outside Government in any relevant field of endeavour.
Mr. Adley
Did the right hon. Gentleman say “Field” ?
The Prime Minister
This advice is co-ordinated for me by the head of the Home Civil Service. The final responsibility for recommending the award of an honour in the half-yearly list which I submit to the Queen is mine.
Mr. Ridley
Does the Prime Minister remember his right hon. Friend the Member for Huyton (Sir H. Wilson), his predecessor, saying that his policy was not to give honours to politicians? Is that the Prime Minister's policy or not?
The Prime Minister
I do not recall that statement. What I do recall is that the hon. Member for Cirencester and Tewkesbury (Mr. Ridley) has himself submitted 14 proposals for honours since 1974. I am very glad indeed to have them, and I promise him that any further proposals that he wishes to put to me will receive appropriate consideration.