Cabinet Ministers
Q1. Mr. Tim Renton
asked the Prime Minister whether he proposes to make any further Cabinet changes.
The Prime Minister (Mr. James Callaghan)
The hon. Member may assume that I do not intend to make any changes in ministerial appointments or responsibilities unless and until I make a statement to the contrary.
Mr. Renton
That was an extraordinarily hypothetical answer. Is the Prime Minister really satisfied with the way in which the Secretary of State for Prices and Consumer Protection is discharging his responsibilities in relation to bread, and, if so, why?
The Prime Minister
My right hon. Friend made a very bold effort to try to meet the views of the Opposition about reducing prices. He should be stimulated in these matters and not discouraged by the Opposition's criticism.
[column 627]Mr. David Steel
Will the Prime Minister try to ensure the inclusion of someone in his Cabinet who is sensitive to the needs of manufacturing industry? Is he aware that, whatever may have been the case for phasing out the regional employment premium, its sudden cancellation caused total havoc with forward pricing and contractual arrangements in manufacturing industries in the development areas?
The Prime Minister
The total number of measures taken concerning manufacturing industry do not, I think, warrant the general condemnation implied by the right hon. Gentleman. There is great sensitivity, as I try to show constantly at Question Time and in my meetings with the CBI—which, incidentally, take place regularly and are not held simply now and again—about these matters.
As regards the regional employment premium, I know about the impact of it and I have heard about some of its effects. But it had become so small in relation to the total wage bill to be much less significant than when it was first introduced.
Mr. Robinson
Is my right hon. Friend aware that in the person of his economic adviser he already has someone in the Cabinet who is sensitive to the problems of manufacturing industry and that, moreover, we would regret to see any change in the very constructive rôle that he is playing in the Meriden negotiations?
The Prime Minister
I know that I have often had occasion to thank my right hon. Friend for the services which he has given in a great many directions. I have no hesitation in saying that he is worth every penny that we pay him.
Mrs. Thatcher
May I take it from James Callaghanthe Prime Minister's first reply that in his new capacity as economic supremo, therefore, he stands four square behind Denis Healeythe Chancellor of the Exchequer, whose first objective is now to reduce the level of income tax, rather than behind some other members of his party who seem to want to increase public expenditure?
The Prime Minister
The Government's policy in relation to both public expenditure and taxation is very clear. I am not so sure about the attitude of the Opposition on matters of public [column 628]expenditure. Despite their protestations at the Dispatch Box, they do not seem to reproduce them in Committees upstairs.
Mrs. Thatcher
Apparently the Prime Minister's answer to my question is that he does not stand four square behind the Chancellor in his first objective of reducing income tax.
The Prime Minister
I was saying that it is not simply for the right hon. Lady to make these protestations about cuts in public expenditure at the Dispatch Box, but also to see that what happens elsewhere in this House is in accordance with her public protestations here. As she knows, that is not happening in the Committees of the House.
As for rates of taxation for next year, I fear that I cannot anticipate my right hon. Friend's Budget Statement.
Prime Minister's Questions
Q2. Mr. Tebbit
asked the Prime Minister if, following his statement of 21st December, Official Report, column 465, he intends to give evidence to the Select Committee on Procedure concerning the nature of the Questions he is willing to answer during Prime Minister's Question Time.
Q6. Mr. Rost
asked the Prime Minister what proposals he has for improving Prime Minister's Parliamentary Question Time in the light of his remarks on 21st December 1976.
The Prime Minister
The Government referred Questions to the Prime Minister to the Sessional Procedure Committee on 12th January. During the Christmas Recess I made a detailed study of the development of Prime Minister's Question Time since 1945, hoping to find ways of improving the procedure, but I could not do so. I am therefore ready to await any conclusions that the Select Committee may reach.
Mr. Tebbit
Will the Prime Minister try answering the question for a start? Will he cast his mind back to 21st December? Does he remember that on that occasion he introduced and discussed at length the subject of the National Association for Freedom, for which he [column 629]has no ministerial responsibility, yet he still refuses to say whether the Marxist speech of his fellow-travelling Energy Minister represents Government policy?
The Prime Minister
The hon. Member for Chingford (Mr. Tebbit) illustrates one conclusion which I had long since come to—that, apart from the merits of the answers, the effectiveness of Question Time depends on the good sense of the questioner.
Mr. Rost
If we could clear the procedural jungle on the Prime Minister's Parliamentary Question Time so that it was possible to deploy Questions in a more straightforward and sensible way, would the Prime Minister live up to his side of the bargain to uplift the value of Parliamentary Question Time by occasionally answering the question?
The Prime Minister
It is very difficult sometimes to give sensible answers to daft questions. As regards the future, the hon. Member for Derbyshire, South-East (Mr. Rost) and I share a feeling about this matter. It is one which has gone to the Select Committee on Procedure. I read what happened last time in 1971–72 when the Committee did not seem to come up with anything. However, I promise the House that I shall try hard if I get sensible questions.
Mr. Corbett
Will my right hon. Friend be just a little more generous? In view of the consistently poor quality of questions from the Opposition, will he make available to them on an adviser basis some of the services which are available at Downing Street in order to get more sensible Questions put on the Order Paper?
The Prime Minister
That is one way of doing it. Another way would be to see that whichever authority supplies the syndicates of hon. Members with questions also supplies them with answers.
Mr. Tebbit
It is your job to give the answers.
Prime Minister
(Engagements)
Q3. Mr. Luce
asked the Prime Minister what his engagements are for Thursday 20th January.
[column 630]Q4. Mr. Skinner
asked the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for 20th January 1977.
Q7. Mr. Dykes
asked the Prime Minister if he will list his engagements for Thursday 20th January.
Q8. Mr. Gow
asked the Prime Minister whether he will list his engagements for 20th January 1977.
Q9. Mr. Blaker
asked the Prime Minister if he will list his engagements for 20th January 1977.
The Prime Minister
This morning I chaired a meeting of the Cabinet, and I shall be holding further meetings with ministerial colleagues and others.
Mr. Luce
In view of the considerable public discussion about the rôle of the United Kingdom in relation to countries which abuse human rights, will the Prime Minister take the opportunity of his engagement at Question Time to express his views? Does he agree that we are more likely to influence other countries in the way we want through a policy of contact rather than through a policy of boycott and isolation?
The Prime Minister
To give a complete answer to that question, I would want to reflect longer. The general position is that contact is good. I believe that it is good between Government and Government and between individuals, but there are always particular cases which arise out of these principles. As far as human rights are concerned, I have made clear many times since the signing of the Helsinki Agreement that there are various ways to approach other signatories of the agreement. One is by way of Government, though this should not necessarily be publicised or appear to be a gesture. The other way is by the expression of general public opinion on these matters, for which the Government take no responsibility. Both methods are right ways to pursue the objective that everyone throughout the whole civilised world can live in peace and dignity and under the rule of law.
Mr. Skinner
Will the Prime Minister take time to look at a Question which I put down last week asking him to [column 631]instruct Ministers and officials not to patronise Trust Houses Forte hotels while they refuse to accept the recognition of trade unions and there are people on the picket lines in many towns and cities throughout the country? Is it not the height of hypocrisy that when the Tory Party leadership is trying to woo the trade unions——
Sir J. Langford-Holt
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Can you enlighten the House as to what on earth this supplementary question has to do with the original Question?
Mr. Speaker
If I tried to tell hon. Members that about supplementary questions, I would do nothing else.
Mr. Skinner
The Question got through the Table Office last week, therefore it must be in order. As I was saying, is it not the height of hypocrisy that, at a time when the Tory Party leadership is trying to woo the trade unions, one of the consultants involved in the Trust Houses Forte hotel business, advising it on employment matters, is none other than the Tory Shadow Employment Minister, who last October was telling members of the Tory Party Conference to join trade unions?
The Prime Minister
I am not acquainted with the details of the Trust Houses Forte dispute, but I hope that everyone on both sides of the House, including the Shadow Employment Minister, will urge Trust Houses Forte to accept trade union recognition for its members. That is essential for good relations in industry. As regards where people should stay, I do not wish to issue any instructions on this matter.
Mr. Dykes
Since the Prime Minister is becoming increasingly proud of his regular meetings with the CBI, would he say unequivocally, so that we all know, that he accepts the CBI's case for lower marginal rates of personal taxation on middle management?
The Prime Minister
There is little doubt that middle management feels that it has been very harshly treated over recent years, and a feeling of dissatisfaction of this sort clearly must be taken into account. The hon. Member, however, does not really expect me to anticipate the Budget.
[column 632]Mr. Gow
Will the Prime Minister reflect on the answer he gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Shoreham (Mr. Luce) when he said that it was his aim to see that our people live in peace and dignity and under the rule of law? Will he bear in mind the conduct of the Secretary of State for Employment over the operation of the closed shop, notably in British Rail, where more than 31 employees, many with a lifetime of service, have been dismissed, in direct conflict with the three principles which the Prime Minister enunciated?
The Prime Minister
I think that the Opposition are in some difficulty over the closed shop. Having read the statement in their new policy document, I think they will find this very difficult to carry out. They should keep up to date, especially as only yesterday a new chapter was inaugurated between the Conservative Party and the trade union movement. Hon. Members should remember that.
Hon. Members
Answer the question.
Mr. Blaker
Will the Prime Minister take five minutes this afternoon to convey to the National Executive Committee of the Labour Party the satisfaction of Opposition Members about the fact that it has confirmed the appointment of Mr. Andy Bevan, and has thus hung a red albatross around the party's neck for the next General Election?
The Prime Minister
This is not a matter for me. That question illustrates yet again the level to which Question Time has sunk.
Mrs. Millie Miller
Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind, referring back to the earlier answer he gave about the plight of people who are not able to express views in their own countries and who do not have the freedom to move away from them, the heinous crimes committed in some countries with extreme Right-wing Governments? Will he also bear in mind the need to ensure that, although we carry on trade and have contacts with them, these countries are aware all the time of our views of their behaviour in relation to human rights?
The Prime Minister
My hon. Friend expresses it exactly. In the case of South Africa, for example, we have made it [column 633]quite clear that we accept the United Nations decisions on these matters in relation to the supply of arms. However, we have maintained the flow of trade between our two countries. I would say that relations between us are cool; they certainly do not have the degree of warmth or intimacy that we have with a number of other countries. This is true of all countries whatever part of the political spectrum they inhabit.
Mr. Whitehead
Will my right hon. Friend go so far as to express the regret which most hon. Members feel at the arrest of so many of the signatories of Charter '77 in Czechoslovakia, many of whom are Socialists, trade unionists and civil rights workers?
The Prime Minister
I have no hesitation in doing that. It was, after all, the Labour Government in 1968 who called the House back from recess at a time of events which merited condemnation by the whole of the British people. That was our position then and it is still our position.