Speeches, etc.

Margaret Thatcher

TV Interview for Sky TV (Strasbourg European Council)

Document type: Speeches, interviews, etc.
Venue: Palais des Congres, Strasbourg
Source: Thatcher Archive: COI transcript
Journalist: Adam Boulton, Sky TV
Editorial comments:

1330-1500 press conference and interviews.

Importance ranking: Major
Word count: 1074
Themes: European Union (general), European Union Single Market, Employment, Economic, monetary & political union, Transport, Foreign policy (Western Europe - non-EU), Foreign policy (Central & Eastern Europe), Northern Ireland, Law & order

Interviewer

Prime Minister, given that you stressed Britain is going to go on playing a full part in Common Market discussions, was it really worth getting into a corner and being, as it were, defeated eleven to one on these two issues since you are going to go on talking about them?

Prime Minister

I do not think you are really giving a full and accurate account.

The first issue we discussed was the Single Market where Britain is in the lead - avowedly and acceptedly in the lead - because we have taken action on more things than the others. They have agreed them but not taken action to the extent that we have.

Secondly, on the Social Charter. You say eleven to one. Some of those 11 voted on the basis that this was only a solemn declaration and was not the basis for any action at all. I knew full well that [end p1] would not be so and some of them got quite a shock therefore when they saw a draft communique into which the Commission was trying to impose their Action Plan by saying that we would fully accept it and agree that it should be implemented. Certainly not! And far from being eleven to one, we turned that round and said: “No! Any proposals they have must come forward in the normal way one by one!” That was not being isolated - that was being followed.

And thirdly, on European Monetary Union and the inter-governmental conference, there were others who had doubts about calling an inter-governmental conference and you will notice it is not being called for a whole year. Why we had to take a decision here is a mystery. It is not to be called for a whole year and there is no time factor put on it at all and when it is called, one of the main Papers that will be discussed there is the one of which Britain is the author, so far from being isolated the fact is we are right in the heart of it and we are also right in the heart of it when it comes to arguing any particular point because we do get involved and we are listened to very carefully.

Interviewer

So there are none of these issues in which you could see Britain leaving the other eleven partners, leaving the Common Market over? [end p2]

Prime Minister

Good Heavens, no! Of course not! Britain's future has been in Europe and Britain's future remains in Europe.

What we are talking about is the kind of Europe which, jointly, we wish to create and on the whole, we have been very influential so far in the whole of the Single Market in having deregulation and we won a tremendous victory only this week: we have been working for years on cheaper air fares across Europe of the kind we have across the Atlantic. It has been the other European countries who have been resisting it, except Holland. Holland and we have been working for years. We got the agreement this week so it is a great step forward, but in our kind of Europe, the deregulation, which will be greatly to the advantage of people, so it is our view that is winning merely by sheer force of argument and validity of what we say.

Interviewer

But as you know, gestures are very important in politics. Is it not the case that when you talk about European integration or indeed when President Bush talks about European integration, that although the financial aspects of the Single Market which you talk about are important, it is also the way in which Western Europe is seen by the world to be cohesive, and have you not somewhat spoilt that picture? [end p3]

Prime Minister

No, because the main definition of European integration is the Single Market, known as the Common Market, under which we are making more progress all the time and as I indicated, we are at the top of the pops as far as translating what we agree into action is concerned and that is a very practical way of European integration.

Interviewer

I remember you once saying that you hoped to see the fall of the Berlin Wall in your lifetime. Well, you have achieved that. Do you think that you will see perhaps a United States of Europe or indeed a united Germany within your lifetime?

Prime Minister

No, I do not think you will ever see a United States of Europe in the sense that you have the United States of America. They all went there to be part of one nation. In Europe, we are a country of Germans, we are a country of British, we are country of French, we are a country of Spanish, a country of Italians; we each live very close together in countries and, of course, we travel and cooperate freely but it is quite different from people going to a melting pot in the United States.

Interviewer

The Germans think they are one nation, don't they? [end p4]

Prime Minister

The Germans seem to think they are one nation but there is no question of them uniting some of the large minorities in other states, in Poland, in Rumania, in Hungary, in Czechoslovakia. Those days are past.

Interviewer

So perhaps in your lifetime one Germany?

Prime Minister

I do not know. What we said about Germany unity was not reunification. Germany unity: that would not necessarily mean the reunification of the two separate Germanies. Whatever happened, it would have to take place in the light of other obligations and agreements to which Germany is a signatory. The NATO Alliance is one; another one is the Helsinki Final Act, which thirty-four countries signed, under which we each agreed not to violate each other's borders. That is therefore pretty strong; that you do not change borders; you only change them by peaceful agreement and any change would have to take place in that framework. [end p5]

Interviewer

Finally, you saw Mr. Haughey this morning. We understand the Irish are very concerned about the Birmingham Six. Are you worried that that might be damaging Anglo-Irish relations, the slowness of the legal processes?

Prime Minister

No. I think what is damaging Anglo-Irish relations is an awful lot of murders for which we have not caught the people or tried them and they go on and on and we really must make an effort to catch the murderers and get them effectively tried and convicted and therefore, we must in fact cooperate more closely on security.

The Birmingham Six case was reviewed again as you know recently by the Court of Appeal and a very long judgement and I have nothing more to say about that.