PRIME MINISTER
(ENGAGEMENTS)
Q1. Mr. Colin Shepherd
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 10 July.
The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)
In addition to duties in this House I shall have meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. This evening I hope to have an Audience of Her Majesty The Queen. Later I shall leave for an official visit to Scotland.
Mr. Shepherd
In the course of her visit, will my right hon. Friend pause to consider some of the comments made on yesterday's proposals for consultation on improvements in trade union practice? Does she agree that the proposals reflect the wishes of the great majority of British people—and indeed the membership of the trade union movement—as was so clearly expressed by means of the ballot box? Will my right hon. Friend not be deflected from her path by the Pavlovian and wholly predictable response of Messrs. Len Murray and Moss Evans?
The Prime Minister
I agree whole-heartedly with my hon. Friend. The consultation document arises out of our undertakings in the manifesto. Those were discussed with the British people while the events of last winter were still fresh in their minds. It was largely as a result of those manifesto proposals that we gained more support than ever before from trade union members, and excellent support in this place.
[column 256]Mr. Straw
Will the Prime Minister take some time this afternoon to consider the promises that her right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food made on 22 June? He promised a 6p in the pound reduction in the price of butter. Is the Prime Minister aware that in none of the supermarkets that I have checked has a price reduction like this been made? Is that another broken Conservative promise? If not, will the right hon. Lady take time off this afternoon, come shopping with me and show me in which supermarkets this Conservative bargain may be purchased?
The Prime Minister
Peter WalkerMy right hon. Friend procured the biggest subsidy for butter that we have ever had, of 12p in the pound. I trust that that will work its way through to the shops to the benefit of the housewife.
Mr. Hordern
Does my right hon. Friend agree that, in view of the strength of sterling and the obvious overseas confidence in the policies of the Government, it is time to abolish exchange control regulations?
The Prime Minister
It is our intention progressively to dismantle exchange controls. It would be unwise to go too far too fast. A policy of one step at a time is very much better.
Q2. Mr. Newens
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 10 July.
The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Member to the reply which I have already given.
Mr. Newens
With the prospect of a sharp increase in mortgage rates due on Friday, will the Prime Minister reconsider her decision on the question of making money available to the building societies, as the previous Labour Government did in similar circumstances, to avert a further boost in the spiralling cost of living, which seems to be the stock-in-trade of her Government?
The Prime Minister
My views on the mortgage rates are well known. It would be far better to wait and see what decision is taken before the Government take any further decision.
[column 257]Mr. Henderson
Is my right hon. Friend aware that she will be warmly welcomed when she visits Scotland? That welcome will be all the warmer if she is able to announce positive proposals for the implementation of the Hardman report, about which the Labour Government shilly shallied for five years.
The Prime Minister
I am very much looking forward to the visit to Scotland but, so that I shall not disappoint my hon. Friend, I point out that I have no major statements to make on the occasion of that visit.
Mr. Canavan
Has the Prime Minister found time today to read the reports of headmasters having to warn parents that they cannot guarantee adequate standards of education for their children, partly because her Government have chosen to divert £60 million from State schools to subsidise fee-paying selective schools? As those who will suffer most from such a policy will be deprived school children, will the Prime Minister admit that her attendance at the recent International Year of the Child celebrations was a piece of sheer hypocrisy?
The Prime Minister
As the hon. Member will be aware, the numbers and proportions of teachers compared with pupils will stay approximately the same in primary and secondary schools. That is the key to achieving good standards of education for children.
Mr. Michael Brown
Will my right hon. Friend take take time off today to read the report in the Sunday Express, which suggested that Her Majesty the Queen might have to receive Mr. Nkomo, who is a terrorist and murderer? Will my right hon. Friend do everything that she can to spare Her Majesty that embarrassment?
The Prime Minister
We have not been advised of any such meeting, nor has our high commission.
Q3. Mr. James Hamilton
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her engagements for Tuesday 10 July.
The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Member to the reply I have already given.
Mr. Hamilton
Will the Prime Minister, if she has not already done so, read the report on the manpower survey [column 258]carried out in relation to 1,226 top industrialists in this country, which states categorically that because of the cuts in public expenditure, and because of the curtailment of recruitment in local authorities, there will be no new jobs? Will she note that the report further states that because of the cuts in consumer expenditure due to the increase in indirect taxation there will be mass redundancies? Bearing in mind the carping criticism which came from her and her right hon. and hon. Friends when we had a Labour Government, will she tell us how she intends to rectify the position?
The Prime Minister
One of the purposes of cuts in public expenditure—which has to be financed by taxation levied upon the hon. Gentleman's electorate, just as much as on anyone else's—is to get more money back into the private sector, so that we can get more jobs in the private sector. When that is done we tend to have more small businesses growing, and that is the true source of new employment.
Mr. Beith
Will the Prime Minister manage to call at Amble in my constituency, where her Government have axed a new naval dock project? Can this be the Government who promised to give our Forces the equipment that they needed? Has she any other plans to help this depressed area?
The Prime Minister
The hon. Gentleman knows that we have given priority to defence expenditure. As he is against public expenditure cuts, he must be in favour of more taxation on the British people.
Mr. Eldon Griffiths
Unless the Prime Minister has already done so, will she find time today to telephone Camp David and ask President Carter whether he will let her into two secrets? First, what is the deal that he has done with Saudi Arabia, and will it help? Secondly, has he now got an energy policy, and will it be sufficient to meet the targets that she helped him to achieve in Tokyo?
The Prime Minister
I have the impression that they are already rather busy at Camp David, but I hope that the news from Saudi Arabia is correct. If we did our bit in Tokyo to try to depress demand, one of the reasons was to be [column 259]able to persuade Saudi Arabia to increase the supply of oil. If she has agreed to do so, it will be a tremendous help on price.
TUC
Q4. Mr. Cartwright
asked the Prime Minister when last she met the TUC.
The Prime Minister
I met the economic committee of the TUC on 25 June.
Mr. Cartwright
Since the Prime Minister apparently expects trade unions to go in for responsible pay bargaining, will she explain how, having destroyed any effective prices watchdog, she expects to persuade trade union negotiators that those who fix prices will be equally responsible?
The Prime Minister
I do not know whether one will be able to persuade them, but unless increased pay is matched by increased output the result will be either inflation or unemployment.
Mr. Lyell
When the Prime Minister next sees the TUC, will she ask that gentle body just what it is that some trade union leaders seem to fear when they require that individuals who work in firms with closed shops should not merely be deprived of their employment but should be deprived of it without unfair dismissal compensation?
The Prime Minister
I think that my hon. Friend is referring to some of the matters that are the subject of consultation with the trade unions at the moment. We believe firmly that people should not be able to be deprived of their jobs without compensation just because they refuse to belong to a trade union. We hope that that is a matter that we shall put right in legislation.
Mr. Meacher
In view of the virtual certainty of mortgage rate increases, will the right hon. Lady acknowledge to the TUC that the average worker will now make a considerable loss from the Budget, and not a net gain as she previously claimed, while she made a gain of about £43 a week? [Hon. Members: “Cheap.” ] Will she explain why people on her level of salary need 40 times the extra incentive of the real wealth creators in society on the shop floor?
The Prime Minister
There were reliefs of direct tax all the way up, as the hon. [column 260]Gentleman knows. If I were to take the advice that has been tendered to me from the Opposition Benches today, all those tax reliefs would be cancelled in favour of increased public expenditure.
Before making any further comment on the mortgage rates, I propose to wait and see what happens at the meeting on Friday.
Mr. Gummer
In the light of the long and proud history of the trade union movement in protecting its members against the force of the rich and over-powerful, will my right hon. Friend do her best to draw to its attention the fact that the proposals in the paper that has been produced will do much to protect individual trade unionists from the over-mighty power of many senior and powerful trade unionists?
The Prime Minister
I will, indeed, convey the message so cogently put by my hon. Friend. Those proposals will also protect anyone who wishes to go about his lawful business unhindered.
Mr. Heffer
Will the right hon. Lady accept that, despite the soft-sell of the proposals of the Government in relation to trade union reform, these proposals are an echo of the Industrial Relations Act 1971, which Labour Members and the trade union movement were quite right to fight? Is it not clear that if she persists in this type of policy she will run into a great deal of difficulty, both in this House and in the country?
The Prime Minister
I do not accept what the hon. Gentleman says about any similarity between these proposals and the major Act that was introduced in 1971. Indeed, one has only to look at that Act to see that that was a very much larger measure than anything that we are introducing now. I believe that we have an absolute mandate for these proposals. They are what the people want. The events of last winter showed that they were needed. I hope that we shall have with us everyone who believes that great powers should be matched by great responsibilities.
Dr. Mawhinney
Would my right hon. Friend care to comment on the act of Labour councils—such as the one in my constituency—which have decided to stop selling council houses to many of the [column 261]tenants, many of whom are trade union members who would wish to buy them?
The Prime Minister
I can only condemn such action and hope that we shall have a Bill before the House soon that will give tenants the right to purchase council houses from the council.
HEATON MOOR
Q5. Mr. Andrew F. Bennett
asked the Prime Minister if she will visit Heaton Moor.
The Prime Minister
I have no plans to do so.
Mr. Bennett
Would the Prime Minister care to reconsider that reply? Many of my constituents in Heaton Moor, particularly those on low incomes and pensions, would very much like to impress on her the difficulty that they have in paying their water service charges, and would very much like the Government to consider extending the rate rebate system to cover water charges.
The Prime Minister
I am afraid that I shall have to disappoint the hon. Gentleman. At the moment I have no plans to do what he asks.
PRIME MINISTER
(ENGAGEMENTS)
Q6. Mr. Ancram
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for 10 July.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply which I gave earlier.
Mr. Ancram
In view of the reaction of Opposition Members to the proposed trade union reforms published yesterday, will my right hon. Friend consider widening the basis of the consultation to include ordinary trade union members who, by and large, support these proposals?
The Prime Minister
I agree with my hon. Friend that these proposals have widespread support both outside and inside the trade union movement. I hope that the final consultation agreed with the leaders will recognise that fact.
Mr. James Callaghan
As the Prime Minister depends so much on her mandate in these matters, does she say that she has a mandate for the closure of old people's homes, for the reduction of training [column 262]for nurses, for a reduction in our educational standards and for the non-existent butter subsidy?
The Prime Minister
I wish that this country created enough wealth to enable us to do more than we do at present, but, as the right hon. Gentleman knows, if we are to create more wealth people must have incentives. The legacy of his Government was to have the biggest borrowing on the next generation that has ever been known.
Mr. Callaghan
Is the Prime Minister aware that we are concerned not only about the production of wealth, with which we certainly agree, but about the distribution of that wealth? Does the right hon. Lady not appreciate that she gave no indication of, and was not elected on, any mandate to reduce public services?
The Prime Minister
We were elected on a mandate to try to reduce direct taxation and to increase the wealth of this nation. In that, the right hon. Gentleman had a singularly poor record.