Newham North East
Mrs. Thatcher said:
“I read in the Daily Mirror this morning that Mr. Callaghan 's choice of candidate in Newham North East was ‘Dick Clements, 50, Editor of Labour's left wing newspaper, Tribune’. So it looks to me as though this is Mr. Callaghan's ‘middle ground’, supporting the Tribune candidate. And when we look to see a little bit more about Mr. Richard Clements, we discover that in the Tribune on 3rd June, he had written an article called, ‘Abolish the Monarchy’. If he is Mr. Callaghan's choice of candidate, if this is Mr. Callaghan's ‘middle ground’, he is welcome to it. It's not mine.”
The National Health Service
The Labour Party has alleged that the Conservatives propose to increase prescription charges and to introduce charges for doctors' visits and stays in hospital. Mrs. Thatcher said:
“I doubt very much whether any responsible Government could say that over a period of five years, regardless of what happened to the value of money, they would not put up prescription charges. … . But we have no intention to raise these charges … . We have no intention whatsoever of the kind attributed to us.”
And Sir Keith Joseph added:
“All the exemptions will remain, and the exemptions cover the elderly, children, the disabled, the chronically sick, and certain other groups. They will remain.”
Virginity Tests
On the subject of virginity tests carried out under this Government on immigrant women at Heathrow Airport, Mrs. Thatcher said:
“I absolutely recoil from it.” [end p1]
(2) Conservative Party Archive: transcript (extract)Question
Could I ask Mrs Thatcher, and Sir Geoffrey? You said in your statement that pensions are adjusted and will be adjusted to take account of prices increases and I believe you used a similar phraseology in your speech in Gravesend yesterday. Does this mean the commitment to increase them in line with prices or earnings, whichever is higher, will not be adhered to and would that mean that the estimate … to £22 will be down-graded, because it will only go up in line with prices rather than earnings?
Mrs Thatcher
You didn't read the whole of the speech last night … only selected parts. We are pledged to increase pensions to take account of price rises. Now you can do that in a number of ways. If there were special increases—you remember, in 1951 Rab Butler had a special increase and we could do that—or you could do it at the annual November up-rating, or you could do it by adding to the Christmas bonus. But we are pledged in any event to go ahead with the November increases, even if those happen to be just a little bit more than the minimum pledge. We are pledged to go ahead with those. You know in Government we always did better than increasing them in line with prices. Ask Sir Keith JosephKeith. He's here, he did it. We always did better but we are naturally cautious with our pledges—can I also just point out, that you said the pledge in line with prices or earnings—it wasn't always observed, you know, by a Labour Government. Do you not remember that time in March 1975 and 1976 when the prices increase was 21.1%; and in fact the pensions increase was only 15%; because they altered the base of judging the year to year increase and they knocked out the four to five worse months? And then perhaps you will remember that there was an issue of something called the “Pensioners' Voice” which in fact reported a deputation led by Betty Millard, the National President, to Mr Ennals, and I quote from them about the earnings increase. It said this, and it is their report of the impression they had from Mr Ennals and it is January 1979, the middle column. He said, “We shall have to wait until [end p2] January to see the November figures” Now this is the relevant sentence: “There is a statutory obligation to take these figures into account,” that is earnings figures, “There is a statutory obligation to take these figures into account, which was done, but not a statutory obligation to get it right.” “Pensioners' Voice,” not mine.
Question
I do remember that, Mrs Thatcher, but my specific question was whether they will rise automatically in line with earnings or prices whichever is higher. I didn't get the answer to that quite …
Mrs Thatcher
The pledge is that we will take into account price increases. In practice in Government we did better. I am pointing out that they have not always honoured that pledge in any particular year and, as you know, indeed once they were taken to court for doing so and you also hear Mr Ennals ' interpretation of that pledge. Let me repeat it—Mr Ennals ' interpretation of that pledge— “There's a statutory obligation to take these figures into account, which was done, but not a statutory obligation to get it right.” Not my words. [end p3]
(3) Thatcher Archive: transcript (extract)Mrs Thatcher answering questions on the raising of prescription charges.
Question
The Labour Party political broadcast last night suggested that people would have to be rich to be ill under the Tories. Will you increase prescription charges to 50p, will you charge for hospital beds, will you charge for visits to doctors?
MT
There's a pledge in the Manifesto not to reduce the resources committed to the National Health Service. At present under Labour, in fact, the hospital waiting lists are longer now than they have ever been in the history of of the National Health Service, far higher than they were under us when we were in office. The fact is that under Labour, if you want an operation, you can't get in, rich or poor, without having to wait a very long time.
Sir Keith JosephKJ
May I add that we don't intend to change the exemption system, which exempts the elderly, the chronic sick, and many other groups, from prescription charges altogether.
Question
Would you just clarify the point about the actual increase in prescription charges?
MT
We shall keep the amount of resources devoted to the National Health Service. We shall hope in fact to cut out waste and to deploy them better, so that you get more going to the medical services, and less to the administration. That is the pledge. At the moment, if you look not at what the Labour Party is saying, but what they have done, look at performance. They are super at missing any target they set. Look at their performance. Their performance, in fact, is that they have got longer waiting lists for hospitals than ever we had. We did better [end p4] in practice, than they have done. I am saying that the amount of money going to the National Health Service, will in fact, the resources, will be protected. The same amount will go. The distribution may be different.
Question
But what about the specific allegation? I mean, they put out the scare last night, to presumably millions of television viewers, that you were going to charge people to visit the doctor.
MT
Yes I know, but they are scaring the whole time. May I just point out to you, or may I ask you to ask them, which government, having put out scares, put up school meals charges by the single biggest amount in history? It wasn't me. It was Shirley Williams. And she put them up from 15p to 25p at a time when the standard of living was falling. Now, they are going to put out one scare after another. Most of them are totally and utterly false, and callous, and inhuman. Under us the National Health Service will be continued. The amount of money allocated to it will not fall. I trust we shall use it better. May I suggest you ask them how much they will put up school meals? Whether they will put up prescription charges? Whether they will undertake not to put up VAT, in view of their record of shoving it up first to 12½%;. and then to 25%;?
Question
Accepting the pledge you have made that you will continue to spend the same amount on the Health Service, not reduce it, but can you make a specific statement that you would not increase prescription charges, and that you would not charge for visits to the doctor, or for hospital stays?
MT
I can not make specific statements. I don't think that there will be any question of charging for visits to a doctor. I doubt very much whether any responsible government could say that over a period of five years, regardless of what happened to the value of money, they would not put up prescription charges. I doubt whether they could. [end p5] They say similar things sometimes about school meals. But sometimes you have to do it. And I can only condemn them for putting these scares about. The money devoted to the National Health Service will be retained. In practice we did better for people under the National Health Service, than the performance of this government. Sir Keith JosephKeith.
KJ
All the exemptions will remain. And the exemptions cover the elderly, the children, the disabled, the chronic sick and certain other groups. They will remain. Secondly, it's the Labour Government that has slashed the hospital building programme which we left at very high, at record levels. (Bit on previous Labour scares. Wilson 's prediction of a million and a half out of work, which MT points out is what happened under Labour.)
Question
You said that you couldn't give a commitment over five years. But would you say at the moment that it's not your intention to raise these charges?
MT
It is not my intention to raise these charges. It is our intention to do the level best for the Health Service. But I don't know of any responsible government that can in fact put a comitment on every single thing for five years. It is our intention to have a better Health Service than at present, and to use the money better. We have no intention whatsoever of the kind that has been attributed to us. (Bit on Geoffrey Howe talking about restoring incentives and cutting tax.)
Question
Mrs Thatcher, you have answered the question on prescription charges, you have answered the question [end p6] on visit to doctors. You haven't answered the question, which was perhaps not put to you, on visits to hospitals, stays in hospitals. Any charges there?
MT
We have no intention. No intention whatsoever of putting on the charges that were attributed to us. No intention whatsoever. And I repeat again to you. And I shall do it again and again and again. Our performance on the National Health Service, in practice in government, was far better than this government. They have cancelled certain hospital programmes, on the capital side slashed them, and they have got longer waiting lists than ever we had. So look at performance. Of course they are trying to take away attention from performance. They have got such a lousy rotten record. Ours it better in every respect. [end p7]
(4) BBC Radio News Report 1800 18 April 1979Curtois
Mr. Hattersley challenged the Conservatives to say where they stood on price controls and the Price Commission; and, over at the Conservatives news conference, Mrs. Thatcher was answering a general question on this issue. She replied that prices had never gone up so much as with the Price Commission.
Thatcher
The way to cut down prices is to improve your competition policy and eventually to put any useful sections of your Price Commission into your Office of Fair Trading. I think most housewives would say to you that people like Marks and Spencers and Sainsbury and some of the supermarkets have been far more effective through competition, far more effective at keeping prices down than any Price Commission.