PRIME MINISTER
(ENGAGEMENTS)
Q1. Mr. McCrindle
asked the Prime Minister what are his public engagements for 28th April.
Q2. Mr. Michael Morris
asked the Prime Minister if he will list his engagements for 28th April.
Mr. Pattie
asked the Prime Minister if he will list his engagements for 28th April.
The Prime Minister (Mr. James Callaghan)
This morning I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet. In addition to my duties in this House, I shall be holding further meetings with ministerial colleagues and others.
Several Hon. Members
rose——
Mr. Speaker
Order. I intend to call first the three hon. Members whose Questions were answered.
Mr. McCrindle
Has the Prime Minister had time today to reflect on the slogan “Let's go with Labour” ? With 5.9 per cent. unemployed, prices rising at nearly 20 per cent. and now 1 million days lost through industrial action last month, can the Prime Minister tell us where exactly it is that we are going with Labour, and will he consider not taking us there?
The Prime Minister
I am glad to say that under the wise and beneficent guidance of this Government the country is going in the right direction, which is in marked contrast to the fortunes of the last Conservative Government. The minimum lending rate is steadily coming down. It is now, I believe 3¾ per cent. lower than it was when the Tories left [column 1481]office, and that in itself must be some incentive for investment. I am glad to say also that the money supply is now under full control, in contrast to the great extravagance in which the previous Chancellor indulged. With those factors moving in the right direction, together with exports, and the reduction in building society interest rates, there is no doubt that we are moving along the path that I have explained so often, and progress is being made in the right direction.
Mr. Michael Morris
Will the Prime Minister make time to speak to those exporters, remind them that he is still looking for export-led growth, and explain why his Government have cut back by 25 per cent. the joint venture schemes affecting the engineering industry, boat building, shoes and, indeed, almost every exporting industry, and also why he has more than quadrupled the prices of the supply of services from Government Departments to the nation's exporters?
The Prime Minister
I think that I am correct in saying that exports went up by 3½ per cent. in the last quarter. That rate of increase—although I should like to see it higher, as everybody would—is an example of progress in the right direction. Encouragement was given to exporters in the Budget by the arrangements that my right hon. Friend the Chancellor announced for the non-taxation of expenses incurred when on overseas visits and in many other ways. The hon. Gentleman will find, if he consults exporters, that they believe that the Government have done a great deal to make exporting profitable and, so far as possible, easier than it was before.
Mr. Pattie
Does the Prime Minister agree with the Lord President's assertion and vision of a Socialist republic in Britain—and, if so, by what date?
The Prime Minister
My right hon. Friend has told me that the answer is “Not next week.”
Mr. Fitt
Will my right hon. Friend consider commenting at some time today on the serious situation which now exists in Northern Ireland and which is liable to deteriorate over the weekend, in that a number of forces, legal and illegal, are attempting to defy the wishes of the Gov[column 1482]ernment and this Parliament? Will my right hon. Friend make clear that the Government will not allow themselves to be blackmailed or bullied by the forces now attempting to do so?
The Prime Minister
I am ready to take the opportunity afforded me by this Question to say that the Government have considered this matter, both today and on earlier days. I have had discussions with the Secretary of State. There is no doubt that my hon. Friend is correct in saying that, if such a strike were to take place it would have the most serious impact on life in Northern Ireland. It should be noted by the people of Northern Ireland that the proposed strike has met with widespread condemnation from many who normally are not in association with one another. I believe that every major political party, perhaps with the exception of the party led by the hon. Member for Antrim, North (Rev. Ian Paisley), has condemned the proposed strike.
I ask those who are proposing it to discontinue their efforts and not press ahead with the strike. If it goes ahead, I ask those who are inconvenienced by it to get to work if they can. Undoubtedly, there will be very considerable interruption, and probably some hardship, if essential services are dislocated and interfered with. Of course, the Government cannot totally prevent that hardship, but I want the House and the people of Northern Ireland to know that we shall take all possible steps to minimise that dislocation and to keep essential services going in order that those who strike in this way cannot by that action bring about the consequences which they wish.
My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State will be going to Northern Ireland tomorrow. I ask all the people in that country, of whatever persuasion, to recognise the seriousness and adverse consequences of such a strike and to do their best either to thwart it or, if it takes place, to overcome it and to pursue the normal life of the Province as far as possible.
Mrs. Thatcher
May I briefly support what James Callaghanthe Prime Minister said?
May I then revert to the question asked by my hon. Friend the Member for Brentwood and Ongar (Mr. McCrindle)? If the Prime Minister is so pleased about the way things are going, will he explain why, ever since the Labour Government [column 1483]have been in office, their record on inflation is four times as bad as that in West Germany, twice as bad as in France, and even worse than that in Italy?
The Prime Minister
We have debated these issues very often and, no doubt, will continue to do so. I repeat again that the rate of inflation is the most important problem with which the Government have to deal. The steps we have taken are overcoming that high rate, as I think the Opposition know. Inflation will undoubtedly fall again during the second half of this year and the first half of 1978—[Hon. Members: “When? How?” ] We shall have to wait and see, shall we not? As the vote of no confidence failed, we certainly will wait and see.
Mr. Molyneaux
With regard to the rumours circulating in Northern Ireland, is the Prime Minister aware that we in the Ulster Unionist Party are pledged to operate within the parliamentary processes? Is he aware, further, that we have already dissociated ourselves from all the proposed and rumoured breaches of the law and from any form of unconstitutional or illegal activity?
The Prime Minister
I am aware of that, and I am sure that the people of Northern Ireland will take note of what has been said today across what I might call the divide—that is to say, that persons of all opinions and all creeds are taking the view that a strike would be most harmful to the people of Northern Ireland, and, what is more, part of it certainly could be illegal if there were any attempt to use para-military action.
We could be facing a most grave situation in Northern Ireland. I am very happy that so many hon. Members of all persuasions are ready to support the efforts that the Government must make, both to overcome any attempt at bringing down lawful authority and to ensure that the life of the population goes on.
SOUTHERN AFRICA
Q4. Mr. Townsend
asked the Prime Minister if he has any plans to visit Southern Africa.
The Prime Minister
I have at present no plans to do so.
[column 1484]Mr. Townsend
In view of the Prime Minister's recent grim warning about Soviet imperialism in Southern Africa, how does he account for the remark of the Foreign Secretary to the House of Commons on 19th April that the Soviet Union had every right to be there?
The Prime Minister
There is no disparity between our remarks. The Soviet Union is a super-Power and it has as much right as anybody else to send its diplomatic representatives anywhere in the world. What we object to is the introduction of armed forces in order to try to influence one side against the other. I do not wish to be offensive to the hon. Gentleman, but I think that nit-picking by seizing upon particular phrases from what is known to be the broad approach of Her Majesty's Government will not do any good.
Mr. John Mendelson
Will the Prime Minister accept that there will be widespread support for the useful initiative of the five Ambassadors, including the British Ambassador, when they intervened recently with the Prime Minister of South Africa on the question of Namibia? Does my right hon. Friend agree that it might be the right time for him—either alone or, again, with the other four Powers—to bring home to the Government of South Africa the fact that one of the most essential contributions that they could make to improving the situation would be to give up their racialist policy and allow more equality to all people in that land?
The Prime Minister
I am obliged to my hon. Friend. The British views about this matter have been put both individually and, as my hon. Friend said, in conjunction with other ambassadors on a number of occasions to the South African Government, most recently on 7th April. Our exchanges have not, of course, been published, but I think that the requirements for a settlement which will meet international acceptance are well known. They were laid down in the Security Council resolution, and include territory-wide free elections, that those elections should be carried out under international supervision, and that all political parties, including the South West African People's Organisation, should be allowed to participate.
[column 1485]Mr. Rifkind
On the question of international supervision, is the Prime Minister aware of reports that, while Mr. Vorster would be unwilling to have United Nations supervision of any elections in South West Africa, there are indications that he would be willing to consider supervision by the Western Powers in the Security Council? If that becomes an offer to the Western Powers, can the Prime Minister indicate what the British Government's attitude would be?
The Prime Minister
At the moment that is a hypothetical question. Clearly, we should be willing to support any effort to ensure that the elections would be completely free and known to be so. I think that we must get the support of countries in Africa if we are to take part in this exercise, for suspicion breeds faster in that continent than almost anything else. I should not rule it out, but I think that I should have to make it a condition that there should be acquiescence in what was being done.
ROXBURGH
Q6. Mr. Skinner
asked the Prime Minister if he will pay an official visit to Roxburgh.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply which I gave to the hon. Member for Mid-Sussex (Mr. Renton) on 7th April.
Mr. Skinner
When he meets the Leader of the Liberal Party, will my right hon. Friend make it clear to him that there are very serious misgivings within the Labour movement about the pact with this discredited bunch and that the party believes that the Liberals would not dare oppose another motion of no confidence in the Government, because they are now electorally impotent, even if they were not before? Will my right hon. Friend also tell the Leader of the Liberal Party that he does not agree with a permanent incomes policy and that he will also not agree with, or be naïve enough to accept, the idea that he will transfer the proposed petrol tax revenue to beer?
The Prime Minister
I am sure that there are certain reservations in some people's mind about the agreements, but I warn my hon. Friend that he is out of tune with the Labour movement if he [column 1486]really believes that there are substantial misgivings because my correspondence, together with the resolutions that I am receiving from constituency parties, shows that for once he is not correct about this.
Regarding incomes policy, I shall be happy to discuss that with the Leader of the Liberal Party if he wishes—[Interruption.] He is entitled to discuss it with me. If he intends to support us in the House of Commons, why should he not discuss it with me? As regards petrol tax, some people have got to be pretty careful. To make a hole of £450 million in the Budget, which they will be able to do only if the Conservative Opposition behave irresponsibly, will mean—[Interruption.] No, I am not threatening anyone. What I am saying is that it is very difficult for the Opposition on one day to ask me to follow President Carter 's example and on the next to vote against the petrol tax.
Mr. David Steel
May I repeat to the Prime Minister that, although we shall just have to agree to differ on the issue of petrol, I should be very happy to discuss that matter with him in my constituency? Is he aware that I should be very happy to see the hon. Member for Bolsover (Mr. Skinner) come to my constituency and speak for my Labour opponent at the next General Election?