Martine Dennis, IRN
Prime Minister, you have agreed to ban the sale of Krugerrands and implied recognition of the ANC.
Prime Minister
I am so sorry! Where is there an implied recognition of the ANC? There is a very very firm clause which is quite new and one we have never had before and which took a lot of negotiating to get—that a dialogue would take place against the background of the suspension of violence, and you know I personally never recognise any organisation unless it agrees to reject violence. I do not see anyone unless they personally agree to reject violence, and that comes through very strongly in this document.
Martine Dennis, IRN
So you have had an overall success then. What do you think was it that made the Commonwealth come round to your way of thinking after an ostensible opposition to you?
Prime Minister
Well, I think the steady arguments, steady persuasion. [end p1] One did just tend to remind them that when the first Commonwealth Conference I attended in 1979 was the one where we started the negotiations which led to the independence of Rhodesia as she was then—Zimbabwe. The day I went there, full mandatory sanctions had been imposed on Rhodesia by the United Nations, been in existence for 12 years, and they had not done the trick. So they are not likely to. If you attempt to impose that on South Africa, what it would mean is to have tremendous unemployment in Britain and tremendous unemployment in South Africa. That really does not seem the right way to go about helping.
Martine Dennis, IRN
Prime Minister, a large part of the Accord is based upon the dialogue between all groups in South Africa.
Prime Minister
That is right, yes.
Martine Dennis, IRN
And the ANC said today that they would refuse to actually enter into dialogue with the South African Government.
Prime Minister
Well I hope that those countries in Africa who are in regular touch with the ANC and who have in fact signed this Agreement, will persuade them to come into dialogue because I do not think it would be helpful for anyone—least of all [end p2] those countries who signed the Agreement—if the ANC were to say: “We do not and will not proceed by negotiation. We will only proceed by violence” and the countries from Africa in the Commonwealth made it abundantly clear that the ANC has always wished to proceed and always been willing to negotiate. They made that clear time and time again, because I tackled them about it.
Martine Dennis, IRN
If there is not what you would call positive action after a certain amount of time, are you committing yourself to further action against South Africa?
Prime Minister
No. We are committing ourselves to review the position. When you embark upon these things, you never know quite what will happen and you simply must not tie your hands to a particular course of action. We have what I call “Thatcher's Law of Politics” which is that the unexpected happens, so you must not tie yourself to a specific course of action, but it did make sense to us to review it after six months and we hope very much either that some kind of dialogue will have started between the South African Government and black South Africans or that preparations will be so advanced that it will start within a comparatively short time.
You see, it is really saying: are these really going to get underway? I believe they will. [end p3]
Martine Dennis, IRN
Are you thinking in terms of a reasonable time span for you to be able to say that fundamental changes have occurred in South Africa beyond the six-months span?
Prime Minister
Of course, changes are occurring in South Africa already and there have been very considerable changes and advances in last three or four months—not enough, but they have made a tremendous difference and it would be churlish not to see that, and I think when people are going in the right direction they really need encouragement to go further in the right direction and it is in that spirit that we have reached this Accord this evening.
Martine Dennis, IRN
Were you ever afraid at all during this week of a break up of the Commonwealth itself with, it seemed, opposition so much against you?
Prime Minister
No, I do not think the Commonwealth would break up. Certainly, we had a great deal of steady, constant persuasion to do, but it worked, and I am very pleased with the result.