PRIME MINISTER
Engagements
Q1. Mr. Callaghan
To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 26 April.
The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)
This morning I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet and had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House, I shall be having further meetings later today.
Mr. Callaghan
Is the Prime Minister aware that the report of the Select Committee on Education, Science and the Arts on teacher shortages, pay and conditions has been suppressed for almost a year? As the report is not to be published until after the local elections, will the Prime Minister tell the House what she and her Conservative colleagues on the Select Committee are afraid of?
The Prime Minister
We are very proud of our record with regard to teachers' pay, compared with that of the previous Labour Government. By 1 January 1991, teachers' pay will have risen by 50 per cent. on average in cash terms since March 1986. My right hon. Friend John Macgregorthe Secretary of State for Education and Science is implementing the interim advisory committee's recommendations. That will mean very substantial rises for all teachers, particularly for experienced teachers and for [column 480]those who are new to the profession. Heads and deputies will receive increases of up to 12.2 per cent. It is a good record.
Mr. Hayward
My right hon. Friend will have received many representations in the past 12 months about alternatives to the community charge. Was not the most callous unveiled yesterday in Scotland, when there was a proposal which made no allowance for rebates for pensioners, the sick, or the unemployed? [Hon. Members: “Rubbish. “] That proposal was outlined by the hon. Member for Glasgow, Garscadden (Mr. Dewar) yesterday. [Interruption.]
The Prime Minister
My hon. Friend makes—[Interruption.]
Mr. Speaker
Order. I am not responsible for what the hon. Member said. It is a matter for him. I call the Prime Minister.
The Prime Minister
My hon. Friend makes his own point very effectively—[Interruption.]
Mr. Speaker
Order. This is disgraceful behaviour.
The Prime Minister
The policy of the Opposition which I would criticise is the roof tax, which would bear particularly heavily on all those in council houses who, having purchased their houses at a very generous discount, would find themselves with a very high actual charge—the roof tax—on the up-to-date valuation of their houses.
Mr. Molyneaux
Is the Prime Minister aware that, whatever may be said by politicians in Europe, including some in this House who should know better, there is widespread support throughout the United Kingdom for her defence of Britain's status as a nation state in all respects?
The Prime Minister
I am very grateful for the right hon. Gentleman's question. I agree that most people wish to be absolutely certain that they will continue to have their own head of state or monarchy—half of them are monarchies in Europe—their own parliamentary institutions and other institutions, and that we should be accountable to them.
Mr. John Townend
Is my right hon. Friend aware of the growing anger among the general public at the enormous cost of the recent prison riots, which will have to be paid by the taxpayer? Will she give an assurance that it will not be allowed to happen again that in any future incident control of the prison will be taken immediately and that whatever course is necessary will be used, be it the SAS, tear gas or arms, and that the Government will not be deterred by fear of convicts being injured?
The Prime Minister
The matter of cost will be discussed with David Waddingtonthe Home Secretary. Although it is normally expected that the police themselves meet from their grants the costs of ordinary policing, that will be further discussed with the Home Secretary. As for the timing of what happened, I think it right that the decision should be left to those on the spot, in conjunction with consultation with the Home Office. It is not for us to second guess the decisions that were made.
Private Office
[column 481]Q2. Mr. Dalyell
To ask the Prime Minister what guidelines she has set out to enable her private office civil servants to ensure that the appropriate distinction is maintained in the handling of party business and official business.
The Prime Minister
Civil servants in my private office observe the same guidelines as other civil servants.
Mr. Dalyell
In that case, what were the facts of Mr. Powell going to see Mr. Black about the position of Mr. Hastings? Is it quite proper that a civil servant should go to see a newspaper proprietor about the position of an editor?
The Prime Minister
I would not accept all that the hon. Gentleman says or his interpretation of it. Civil servants in my private office have served Governments of both political complexions with great efficiency, conscientiousness and professionalism. That is a great strength of our system, and it is understood that we do not normally attack people in this House where they cannot answer back. I am certain that they will continue to carry out their duties in the highest spirit of conscientiousness and professionalism.
Mr. Allason
My right hon. Friend will be aware that Mr. Dennis Payne, who recently conducted an investigation into leaks from Downing street, has given a lengthy interview to Thames Television, for broadcast this evening, which is being considered by the Independent Broadcasting Authority. Does she consider that to be appropriate? Will she give serious consideration to the IBA banning the broadcast on the ground that Mr. Dennis Payne had not been given permission to make those disclosures?
The Prime Minister
If any people have given interviews to television as civil servants, they have cleared it with Sir R. Butlerthe Cabinet Secretary, who is head of the Civil Service. Matters concerning the IBA are for the IBA to reply on and not for me.
Mr. John Garrett
Why have the Government redefined the duty of a civil servant? The duty and loyalty of a civil servant has always been to the Crown. The head of the Civil Service has now announced that the duty and loyalty of a civil servant is to the Government. What fear or ambition has led the right hon. Lady to approve that constitutional change?
The Prime Minister
The hon. Gentleman is not correct. The duties under Sir R. Armstrongthe previous Cabinet Secretary were reissued, very substantially in the same form as previously, as the hon. Gentleman will find if he goes through them. Those duties are of course to the state, which means that they must serve the Government of the day.
Mr. Dalyell
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the nature of the Prime Minister's reply, I beg to give notice that I shall endeavour to raise the matter on the Adjournment.
[column 482]Q3. Mr. Soames
To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 26 April.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Soames
May I return my right hon. Friend to the mutiny at Strangeways prison? [Hon. Members “Yes.” ] Having regard to the earlier answer that she gave, may I ask if she is aware that there is a significant body of public opinion in Britain which cannot understand why the recapture of the prisoners should have been allowed to take such a long time? Will she reassure the House that the prison service will get whatever equipment it says that it needs to control riots in prisons?
The Prime Minister
I shall return for a moment to the subject of the Strangeways riots. I said previously that I thought that we could not second guess the decision of those on the spot in consultation with the Home Office. It would be mistaken hindsight for us each to express our views without having been on the spot at the time.
Like my hon. Friend the Member for Crawley (Mr. Soames) and my right hon. and learned Friend David Waddingtonthe Home Secretary, I am glad that the disturbances have ended. My right hon. and learned Friend will be making a full statement on those disturbances immediately after Question Time. In the past few days, the Home Office has placed orders for an extra £750,000 worth of equipment and clothing for the personal protection of officers who may have to deal with prison disturbances. My right hon. and learned Friend will be giving further details later.
Mr. Kinnock
In view of yesterday's further evidence of the appalling balance of payments position, what changes does the Prime Minister intend to make in her economic policies?
The Prime Minister
The Government have no changes to make in their economic policies. In view of the right hon. Gentleman's question, I hope that we shall receive his support in trying to keep down unit labour costs and, therefore, that he will not support every increase in pay which is unrelated to productivity.
Mr. Kinnock
I remember when the Prime Minister used to think that unit labour costs were a matter of market movement and not a matter for politicians. Does she realise that Britain now has the highest inflation and the lowest growth rate of any of the major industrialised countries? Is she aware that it is now three years since the last time we had a monthly balance of payments surplus? Is she willing to recognise that no Government have ever had it so wrong for so long, and does she not owe it to the country to change from her disastrous policies?
The Prime Minister
I am interested that the right hon. Gentleman thinks it so wrong to have the highest number of jobs that there have ever been in this country's history. That is the basis of the people's prosperity. I am also interested that he thinks it so wrong to have the highest level of capital investment in manufacturing industry, and the highest output. We think that that is a good basis for the future.
Mr. Bill Walker
Has my right hon. Friend noticed that in the second year of the community charge in Scotland [column 483]local authorities' expenditure programmes are largely within the rate of inflation and that 20 of them have expenditure programmes at about the same level or below the level the previous year? Does not that show clearly that the community charge is working? [Interruption.] Oh yes, it is. More importantly, those people in Scotland who have paid their community charge have little sympathy for those who can pay but refuse to pay, such as the provost of Angus district who is now using his community charge money to run around in a car which is not paid for by himself?
The Prime Minister
What my hon. Friend is suggesting is that in the first year of the community charge local authorities try to increase their expenditure and blame the community charge instead of themselves, but in the second year they cannot do that and may therefore be more conscientious in trying to curb their expenditure. The community charge law was passed by the House and, like all laws, it should be observed by all honourable citizens.
Q4. Mr. Wray
To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 26 April.
The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Wray
Will the Prime Minister kindly apologise for the attack that she made on the Scottish people when she said that they were subsidised by the tolerant English? Will she also make it clear that although when the poll tax was [column 484]being implemented in Scotland and her advisers' answer was yes, yes, yes, the answer from the heartbeat of Glasgow and all Scotland is no, no, no?
The Prime Minister
As for the practical part of the hon. Gentleman's question, he will be aware that the community charge in Scotland meets only one fifth—20 per cent.—of local government expenditure. The community charge in England meets 30 per cent. of local government expenditure. We in England would very much like to have the same proportion of grant as Scotland enjoys.
Mr. Barry Field
Does my right hon. Friend agree with the awful historical statistic that, of the 800 Isle of Wight riflemen who were sent to reinforce the beach head at Gallipoli, only 180 returned without injury?
Dr. Godman
Take your hands out of your pockets.
Mr. Field
Does my right hon. Friend agree that that statistic is the best reason why we should have a strong NATO, supported by an excellent military ally such as Turkey, and that we should modernise our nuclear deterrent, and is not it a timely reminder of the unity that the Commonwealth gives us in adversity?
The Prime Minister
Yes, I agree with my hon. Friend. It is particularly noteworthy that when we were celebrating the 75th anniversary of the Gallipoli landings we did so with Turkey as a main ally of this country. Both of us believe staunchly that NATO provides us with a sure defence against such things happening again.