Speeches, etc.

Margaret Thatcher

House of Commons PQs

Document type: Speeches, interviews, etc.
Venue: House of Commons
Source: Hansard HC [165/404-08]
Editorial comments: 1515-1530.
Importance ranking: Major
Word count: 2262
Themes: Parliament, Industry, Trade, Economic, monetary & political union, Family, Health policy, Private health care, Local government finance, Community charge (“poll tax”), Social security & welfare
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PRIME MINISTER

Engagements

Q1. Dr. Reid

To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 18 January.

The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)

This morning I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet and had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House, I shall be having further meetings later today.

Dr. Reid

Following her speech last night when she outlined plans to ensure maintenance payments by absent fathers, may I welcome the move but inform the Prime Minister that the question being asked this morning by many people is: who will benefit financially, the Chancellor or the children? Will the Prime Minister clear up the matter by giving a pledge today that every pound saved by the Exchequer from the enforcement of the new regulations will be committed to child welfare?

The Prime Minister

Both the mothers and the children will benefit. A scheme is being worked out and my right hon. Friends will come forward with it in due course.

Sir Peter Tapsell

If the governor of the Bundesbank was being serious and was not merely seeking to tease his own Minister of Finance when earlier this week he called for the establishment of a European central bank, totally free from all political control, will my right hon. Friend reiterate that that would be overwhelmingly rejected by people of all political persuasions in this country and, one would hope, by everyone throughout Europe who subscribes to the concept of parliamentary democracy?

The Prime Minister

Yes, Sir. I am grateful to my hon. Friend and agree entirely with what he said. I believe that this hon. House does, too, judging from the debate. It was clear that all parts of the House totally and utterly rejected stages 2 and 3 of the Delors report, which would mean a central bank that took powers out of the hands of the House, not only on monetary policy but on budgetary policy, too.

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Mr. Kinnock

Will the Prime Minister take the opportunity to confirm that the poll tax bills that people will receive will be much bigger than the bills which the Government promised? Does not the gap between promise and reality show that the Government are guilty of incompetence and deception?

The Prime Minister

No, Sir. The Government set the level of reasonable spending for the coming year at 11 per cent. above the reasonable spending for this year. If local authorities spend above that, the community charge will go up. If there are very high community charges, it would be as well to look for the fault to Labour local authorities.

Mr. Kinnock

The Prime Minister is trying to deceive yet again—[Interruption].

Mr. Speaker

Order. Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman will rephrase that.

Mr. Kinnock

The Prime Minister just cannot stop herself trying to misrepresent the position. Does she not yet understand that local authorities, Conservative as well as Labour, are telling her repeatedly, as are some of her hon. Friends, that the poll tax system is absurd and dishonest?

The Prime Minister

The poll tax system will reveal to the electorate—[Hon. Members: “Ah!” ] The adult community charge—the new system for contributing to local authority expenditure—will be very much fairer, will make local councils accountable to their electorate and will demonstrate which are the extravagant authorities and which are the careful spenders. It is because Labour authorities are extravagant that Labour Members oppose the community charge.

Mr. Kinnock

If that is even partly true, will the Prime Minister tell us why she thinks that so many of her hon. Friends will have such difficulty supporting her tonight?

The Prime Minister

Perhaps they should reserve their firepower for extravagant Labour local authorities.

Mr. Dickens

Does my right hon. Friend agree that since time immemorial young couples have always had a job rearing and educating their children? Can it be right, just and fair for those couples to pay, through their taxes, for other people's children because fathers walk away from their financial responsibilities? May I say—[Interruption].

Mr. Speaker

Order. The hon. Member for Littleborough and Saddleworth (Mr. Dickens) has been away for some time. We all want to hear him.

Mr. Dickens

May I say to the Prime Minister that Conservative Members and most of the general public who care about children very much welcome the statement that she made last night and give her our support?

The Prime Minister

May I thank my hon. Friend, and welcome him back in his customary vigorous form? He will know that we believe that people who have a responsibility for the maintenance of children should not be allowed to escape that responsibility. We propose to make the arrangements for collecting maintenance more effective than they are now.

Q2. Mr. Kennedy

To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 18 January.

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The Prime Minister

I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

Mr. Kennedy

May I congratulate the Prime Minister—[Interruption.] May I warmly congratulate the Prime Minister on at last getting the title of the poll tax correct? Does she share the distinct sense of irony felt by Opposition Members who represent Scottish constituencies in that, although we are to witness yet another Conservative Back-Bench revolt on the issue, only three Conservative Members who are likely to withhold their support or vote against her in the Lobby tonight bothered to vote against precisely the same legislation on Scotland when it was pushed through this place? Does not that reality and the fact that Scottish Office Ministers have been warning their colleagues on the Back Benches of the “dire consequences” in Scotland for them of the poll tax highlight not only the fraudulent nature of the tax but the failure of so-called Governments in Scotland under her rump of a party?

The Prime Minister

The community charge is by far the fairest way of paying for a very small proportion of local authority expenditure. The taxpayer pays by far the greater part, the business taxpayer pays the next greatest part and all the rebates and transitional reliefs are paid for by the taxpayer. I wonder why Opposition Members who criticise the community charge have no alternative to put in its place.

Q3. Mr. Janman

To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 18 January.

The Prime Minister

I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

Mr. Janman

Is my right hon. Friend aware that since the abolition of the dock labour scheme the port of Tilbury has attracted 14 new shipping services, has refurbished its cruise line terminal and is expecting that business to increase next year and is recruiting youngsters from the area for the first time in many years? The productivity record of the container division has recently been broken, with 230 containers being loaded off one ship in one eight-hour shift. Will my right hon. Friend join me in congratulating the chief executive, his management team and all the men and women who work in the port on their success, and does she agree that the facts that I have given the House prove that the Government were absolutely right to abolish the dock labour scheme?

The Prime Minister

I gladly accept my hon. Friend's invitation and congratulate those in the port of Tilbury. When we abolished the restrictive practices under the dock labour scheme, it was evident that ports would begin to flourish and that the surrounding areas and companies would benefit. That is now happening. The Opposition accepted and supported the dock labour scheme and opposed its abolition, but it is because we abolished it that there is now extra prosperity.

Mr. Canavan

Is the Prime Minister aware that in Scotland an estimated 1 million people are in serious arrears with poll tax payments, of whom 500,000 have made no payment at all? As even today's Financial Times describes the poll tax as a fiscal monstrosity, and as 40 or more English Tories are set to rebel in the poll tax vote tonight, will the Prime Minister do the decent thing and [column 407]abolish that iniquitous tax, which is unjust, unworkable and unwanted by the vast majority of people in this country?

The Prime Minister

The community charge is much fairer than domestic rating revaluation. As the hon. Gentleman is aware, in Scotland domestic rating revaluation after seven years caused immense problems. The hon. Gentleman should remember that the revaluation for England has taken place after 17 years. The community charge is much fairer than the proposed alternative, which would involve two taxes, including a local income tax. Once the community charge is working properly, people will know that it is a much better and fairer tax than the one which it replaces.

Q4. Mr. David Shaw

To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 18 January.

The Prime Minister

I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

Mr. Shaw

At a time when eastern Europe is moving away from Socialism, centralisation and unelected government, does my right hon. Friend consider that her Government should do all in their power to oppose yesterday's proposals by Mr. Jacques Delors for more centralised bureaucratic power in the European Commission, which would do nothing to further the free enterprise system that should become the Europe of the 1990s?

The Prime Minister

I note my hon. Friend's views. I have read Mr. Delors 's speech. I made the same point as my hon. Friend in my speech in Bruges some time ago. We do not want more bureaucratic control, especially as eastern Europe is trying to get away from it. We want more free trade and the dismantling of barriers. The House made clear its view that it would not accept stages 2 and 3 of the Delors report. It is a great pity that the Commission is trying to take more powers unto itself, and away from democratically elected Parliaments.

Q5. Mr. Maxton

To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 18 January.

The Prime Minister

I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

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Mr. Maxton

Is the Prime Minister aware that Lothian health board is seeking sponsorship from private companies to carry out open-heart surgery in its hospitals and that it has said that if it does not find the sponsorship, the operations will not take place? If she considers that proposal to be as obscene as I do, will she today ensure that the Scottish health boards are properly financed so that no Scottish person's life depends upon the whims of a private company? Is not that sponsorship proposal just one more move towards a Health Service that fulfills her Victorian ideals, whereby the rich pay for their health but the poor rely on charity?

The Prime Minister

There are far more open-heart operations now than there were 10 years ago. The amount spent on the Health Service in Scotland is more than 30 per cent. higher, after inflation, than it was 10 years ago. If people wish to raise more money—and there will always be room for more expenditure because of the swift progress of medical research—the hon. Gentleman should welcome that as it would assist the work of the Health Service.

Q6. Mr. Waller

To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 18 January.

The Prime Minister

I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

Mr. Waller

Is my right hon. Friend aware that most industrial companies that provide employment in the north and midlands greatly welcome the revalued uniform business rate? It will not only protect them from high-spending Labour authorities but provide a much more equitable basis for payment. Is my right hon. Friend aware that their only complaint is that the phasing-in period will prevent them from gaining the full benefits for a considerable time?

The Prime Minister

I am grateful to my hon. Friend. The business rate should be welcomed by all who believe in helping the north to get more jobs, keep their business costs down and ensure that they are not the prey of extravagant local authorities. Over five years, the north and midlands will benefit to the extent of £900 million. It is right that the south should have a transition period in which to pay that amount.