Interviewer
If I can talk about the internal matters first, on those two key issues of economic monetary union and the Social Charter you were in a minority of one, did you feel isolated?
Prime Minister
No, not in any way because on the Social Charter there were some who only supported it believing that it would not lead to any directives at all, that it was just a solemn declaration. I knew that was not how the Commission would review it in any way and so the isolation was a good deal less than may seem so at first sight.
Interviewer
What about economic and monetary union, again you were in a minority of one? [end p1]
Prime Minister
Not really, I certainly do not think it is necessary to call an inter-governmental conference but there were others too who do not think it necessary to call an inter-governmental conference. But you only have to have a simple majority—seven to five will do—to call an inter-governmental conference so the doubts of others did not appear so explicit as mine did.
When we get to an inter-governmental conference, it is not only the Delors idea of European monetary union that will be discussed, it is ours too, which is a much more evolutionary process and one which retains full democratic accountability to our own national Parliament.
Interviewer
You mentioned your doubts. At this stage you simply said your piece and then in effect let them get on with it—it does not quite seem your style somehow?
Prime Minister
No, but I do not let them get on with it. We would go to an inter-governmental conference, of course we do. We play a very full part because one of the papers that is going to be discussed is one of which we have been the author. So far from just let them get on with it, we are right in it. And one of the two papers that is going to be discussed is ours. [end p2]
Interviewer
When it comes to it then, looking at what you say now and what you might say then, were you at this stage perhaps holding afar until you see the whites of their eyes as it were?
Prime Minister
No, you are right off beam if I might say so, right off beam. We had a very reasonable discussion about it. There were some who indicated their very considerable doubts. As you know, Chancellor Kohl has had more than one view about it during his time and others were doubtful about some matters. The matter now goes to be thrashed out at an inter-governmental conference which will not start until at least another year's time.
Interviewer
When it is thrashed out you will presumably be stating your case very clearly and very forcefully. Do you think your view will prevail or do you think perhaps you might even use your powers of veto in sections of it?
Prime Minister
I think it is not only that we shall thrash it out, I think that others will have to thrash it out because they then cease to talk in terms of generalities and then see how the whole economy and finances of their country are going to be affected by what is proposed and whether they can justify that to their national Parliaments and people. Because this is taking a big block of [end p3] sovereignty away from each national Parliament and giving it to some amorphous body which is not democratically accountable to anyone.
Interviewer
If I can turn now to Eastern Europe. We are living through momentous but unstable times. Do you think that the Common Market is doing sufficient to ease the transition of their new democracies?
Prime Minister
Yes, very much so. We have made very extensive help both to Poland and Hungary and they are now before the International Monetary Fund and there will be more help when they have got agreements there and we do stand ready to help others.
But we do say they really must make definite moves towards democracy and not just a modification of the Communist Party, genuine democracy with more than one party and accompanied by economic reform and I think that is the way to go.
We cannot interfere internally, that would cause problems, but we do stand ready to help if our help is sought.
Interviewer
Finally, the reunification of Germany does appear to be on the agenda at some point, what sort of timescale and what form would you like to see? [end p4]
Prime Minister
There is absolutely no particular form at all. The sentence that is at the head of that particular paragraph is one which comes from the NATO Communique and then that is placed in the full context that it must take into account all of the other obligations of the Alliances, it must take into account NATO, it must take into account the Warsaw Pact, it must take into account the Helsinki Final Act which says we do not violate one another's borders, and it must take into account the other agreements which each of us has.
So there is no particular way in which it could come about and no need to think that it would come about by East Germany and West Germany uniting in one country.
Interviewer
But do you think it will come about?
Prime Minister
I do not know, we cannot tell. I think it can only come about when all of the other obligations that Germany has assumed and signed are also taken into account.